Claudia von Boeselager [00:00:50]:
Welcome to the Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast. Nathalie, it's a pleasure to have you with us today.

Nathalie Niddam [00:00:54]:
Thank you so much for having me, Claudia. It is so nice to be here and it's great to see you again. It's been a while.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:01:00]:
Exactly. It's been a while. So very excited to have you on the show for the first time and hopefully we'll do a round two at some point too, for people unfamiliar with your work. Natalie, can you give a brief introduction to yourself for my audience?

Nathalie Niddam [00:01:12]:
For sure. So I, right now I host a podcast myself called Longevity with Natalie Nidham. So we're, you know, Claudia and I are kind of compatriots in this, in this space. And I, I was, I started off as a holistic nutritionist and got interested in the whole biohacking movement. And so I'm probably, I started off as a holistic nutritionist. You know, I kept. It's funny how you lose track of time. I think I used to, I was so used to saying, oh, five years ago, well, maybe it was eight, maybe I think it might have been 10.

Nathalie Niddam [00:01:45]:
But now I realize it was 12 years ago.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:01:47]:
Time flies when you're having fun, right?

Nathalie Niddam [00:01:49]:
Oh my gosh. And, and so, so much has changed.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:01:52]:
Right.

Nathalie Niddam [00:01:53]:
So anyway, so I went back to school full time to do this nutrition thing and then I very quickly got, actually, when I went in there, I was already following guys like Dave Asprey, Rob Wolf with the Paleo Diet, Mark Sisson with, you know, his work. Like at the time those were the big names, right? And Dave often is still a very big name. But, and, and, but very quickly I kind of fell into this, this idea that, you know, nutrition's great and it in on its own, it's not enough. And So I started to kind of start looking for more. And back in the day, that was when Dave Asprey launched his first human potential coach training program. And so, you know, I'm the kind of person. I made the decision to go back to school to study nutrition inside. Inside of a week.

Nathalie Niddam [00:02:42]:
I made the decision to join his course inside of 24 hours. And I'm sitting there. I had never spent so much money on anything in my life. And I was like, as well.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:02:51]:
I know. Yeah.

Nathalie Niddam [00:02:51]:
What have I done? And I was so worried that I had just spent thousands of dollars to learn about the bulletproof diet. But as it turns out, it was a really, really powerful program. Yeah, you know, I don't know where it is these days, but at the time, it taught me a lot about coaching. It taught me a lot about helping people to, you know, get through the stories in their head that was getting in the way. You know, we forget, like, right. We tell people, you know, do this, do that, do the other thing. Meanwhile, a person's walking around with a whole set of preconceived notions about themselves which they haven't dealt with. They can't do the work anyway.

Nathalie Niddam [00:03:25]:
So I did that. And then I fell across this whole world of peptides and peptide bioregulators. Probably now I should probably add a year to whatever I'm going to say, let's say six years ago, five or six years ago. Got really fascinated. And, you know, then I started this Facebook community, which really blossomed, and then I started the podcast, and here we are.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:03:46]:
Beautiful. Thank you so much. The summary. I know, and the time that does fly. It's wild. I mean, I, you know, probably need to also add a couple years. So it's been sort of 12 to 14 years since my first sort of introduction to biohacking back in the day was, you know, called Different Things. And I.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:04:01]:
I remember launching the podcast when I was discussing longevity in 2020, and people are like, how do you spell longevity? You know, now everyone's like, oh, I'm all about longevity, always.

Nathalie Niddam [00:04:10]:
Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:04:10]:
Back then, people were like, you know, how do you spell? It was so funny. So, Natalie, can you share a little bit of the following? So you're dedicated to helping people thrive well into their 50s and 60s and beyond. If you had to distill longevity into three key pillars, what would they be?

Nathalie Niddam [00:04:25]:
Good question. I think, you know, I think it would be, and in no particular order, it would be metabolic health, being metabolically healthy. Yep. It would be having a solid lifestyle that encompasses, like, the the exercise and sleep. And this is my way of getting 10 things into three. Perfect.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:04:48]:
You're like, me. I'm like, how do I pack in the maximum?

Nathalie Niddam [00:04:50]:
Yeah. How do I pack it all in? And then number three, which I think is the piece that so many people forget or don't put enough importance into. And that is the. It's. It's. It's the spiritual piece. It's the joy. It's the.

Nathalie Niddam [00:05:08]:
It's your approach to life. It's dealing with your stories, it's dealing with your history. It's. It's finding that inner peace that allows you to approach all of these things with joy. And this is where I'm seeing. We are all seeing it. I think we're seeing a disconnect, right? Like, we see there's one person in particular in our space who's taken on this challenge of, I'm Gonna Live to 180. I don't know what his number is, and, you know, spends his days monitoring and measuring and taking supplements and doing the things.

Nathalie Niddam [00:05:41]:
And I don't know this person personally, so I could be dead wrong here. But when I look at the person, when I hear the person speaking, I don't. I don't see. I don't experience. I don't feel any kind of joy coming from them. And I don't know anything about the relationships, but. But I suspect that, you know, that singular focus is approaching the body in a very conventional way where, you know, we can, you know, like in medicine, we chop it up and we look at what's broken and we fix it and we slap it back together again, and then it'll be great. Yeah, but you forget about the person and.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:06:16]:
Yeah, yeah. Have you seen the documentary? I'll just name it. It's Brian Johnson.

Nathalie Niddam [00:06:22]:
I actually.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:06:23]:
Have you actually seen the documentary?

Nathalie Niddam [00:06:25]:
No, I haven't. I. You know, I watch so little tv.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:06:29]:
I mean, I don't even own a television, but I do have an iPad.

Nathalie Niddam [00:06:33]:
Watch it on your computer.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:06:34]:
Exactly.

Nathalie Niddam [00:06:35]:
Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:06:35]:
Because my friend Andrew Steele was interviewed as part of it as well. So I was like, okay, I have to support Andrew. Let me check it out as well. And what I thought it was very interesting were one thing that Brian said is that because of his past trauma, he wants to not have the mind involved and just have the body doing. And I was like, how interesting. Because my philosophy is 180. And I think a lot of people I was chatting with, I think, you know, M F Kara about this, and we're both like, you know, it's all about, you know, nurturing the mind and then the body goes with it. Right.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:07:06]:
But Brian seems to be the opposite. But he, in the documentary, which, you know, maybe worth checking it out, but he has a very strong relationship with one of his sons. And so it was a little bit more the humane side, which I feel like obviously when he speaks at the conferences and stuff where, where we're at, that it doesn't necessarily come across just because of his personality type as well, but. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So.

Nathalie Niddam [00:07:29]:
But I think we would probably agree that it's dealing with that trauma that he's going to have to do 100%. Right.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:07:35]:
It's all.

Nathalie Niddam [00:07:36]:
It's the very work for all of us. It will be the one thing.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:07:39]:
Yeah.

Nathalie Niddam [00:07:40]:
That could be. And I mean, you know, maybe, maybe physiology can overcome psychology. Who knows? But I don't. I suspect not. And I suspect he would get such a better result to lean into that trauma, to resolve it, to come to peace with it, like, whatever it looks like for him. I don't know what it was. So I can't. I can't even begin to imagine.

Nathalie Niddam [00:08:04]:
But that's. That I think that that's maybe a mistake that many people will make. Right. They're. They, I mean, on the one hand, because people are performers and performance driven, they're like, I don't have time for that stuff. They. And men are actually really good at doing this. But some women too, where they wrap it up, they roll it up into the.

Nathalie Niddam [00:08:23]:
Stick it into a shelf and they're like, you're over there.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:08:26]:
That used to be me.

Nathalie Niddam [00:08:27]:
Yeah. And so. And we don't recognize that that shelf is not. There's nowhere you can put that. That is not somehow going to inform your subconscious. That is not somehow going like your cells in your body, their vibration is affected by the sum of all the parts. Right.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:08:45]:
Yeah. I mean, the body keeps the score. Right. You know, around this too. And I think it's such a key component. I've had like, you know, Dave. Dr. Dave Raven and things like that on the podcast as well.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:08:55]:
We've discussed this, that you have to process the trauma. And I feel like that's the triad for longevity is the body, mind and spirit and some just biohacking, focusing on the body. Some are like, okay, some brain stuff. But that spirit piece is. Is key. Right. And includes also like being, you know, self love, which for a lot of people is very difficult. And then onto feeling connected and part with others, which we know from Harvard study is the key to Happiness and longevity.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:09:22]:
Right. So, yeah.

Nathalie Niddam [00:09:23]:
100Amazing.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:09:25]:
What's one common myth about aging or longevity, Natalie, that you wish more people understood?

Nathalie Niddam [00:09:32]:
Common myth. Well, the, the myth of you feel this way because you're old. Right. The, the, the notion that there's, you know, you can look up 60, and this is what 60 looks like. 70 looks like this. 80 looks like this. 90 looks like this. I think that if, if we've seen anything, if we're looking around those myth, the myth that you ne.

Nathalie Niddam [00:10:00]:
Things will change as you age. There's no doubt about it. Of course we will age. How. And, and one myth is that you can anti. Age right now. That's not a thing. Time is passing.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:10:11]:
You're.

Nathalie Niddam [00:10:11]:
You're going to age one way ticket. Yeah. But how you age will be entirely dependent on the decisions that you make. So it's never too early to start, and it's never too late to begin.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:10:26]:
Yeah.

Nathalie Niddam [00:10:26]:
Obviously, the earlier that we begin, the easier it is, the more we can accomplish, let's say. But I think that someone right now who might be listening to this podcast, who might be in their 60s, who's feeling kind of horrible and their metabolism's a mess, and they've, they're achy, and I mean, the world is filled all the. And you can find them on social media. The world is filled with people who decided, I'm done. This is over. I'm going to make these decisions, and I'm going to live my life differently. I'm going to prioritize myself. For some people, it's an event that helps them to do it.

Nathalie Niddam [00:11:03]:
In other people, it might be doing that inner work that helps them to release all of this inner stuff that I'm not worthy or whatever it is that you're walking around with, and that decision. And it's never too late.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:11:20]:
That's a great reminder. Yeah. Thank you. I'm excited to dive into the peptide revolution, and bioregulated peptides are one of the most exciting breakthroughs in longevity science. And can you explain what they are and how they differ from traditional peptides?

Nathalie Niddam [00:11:38]:
For sure. So the bioregulators, I mean, it's interesting that you refer to them as a breakthrough, because I think in the country where they were discovered, they're not. They're old news.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:11:46]:
100 exactly. Yeah.

Nathalie Niddam [00:11:49]:
This is science that has been studied in Russia for three to four decades. It's, it's. This is old news for those.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:11:57]:
Thank you for naming it as well. It's funny because you see that in the Western media And they're like, oh, breakthrough.

Nathalie Niddam [00:12:01]:
It's like actually like, yeah, you know what? Give, give credit with credit is due. Politics aside, you know, you can think what you want and believe what you believe. The reality is that this very brilliant man at a very young age was tasked with a big job by the military in Russia. And he discovered these tiny little proteins that act as epigenetic switches in the body. So bioregulators, and we call them peptides, because as soon as you string together a bunch of amino acids, we call it a protein, and if it's small enough, we call it a peptide. Now, I recently said on a podcast that it was 50amino acids or less. And some guy on social media said, that's not true. It's 100amino acids or less.

Nathalie Niddam [00:12:40]:
I'm like, potato, potato.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:12:42]:
I mean, call it.

Nathalie Niddam [00:12:45]:
It depends who you talk to and what their definition is. Fact of the matter is they're small proteins. So the conventional. The peptides that people might be more familiar with, which is the BPC157 or Thymosin Beta 4 or TB500, those are longer chain peptides. So those fall in the 50 and under kind of amino acid chains, they act more like signaling molecules. And so very often they'll have receptors on the surface of a cell. That doesn't mean that they won't necessarily affect genetic expression. They will, but they will do it as more of a part of a signaling cascade with the bioregulators, because they're only.

Nathalie Niddam [00:13:24]:
At most, I would say, you know, now there's talk that maybe there's a couple of bioregulators that are five amino acids or seven, but if we're going to be purist and stick with Cavinson's work, it's two to four amino acids. And what it is about these guys is they can. They're so tiny, and because of the charge that they carry and a whole bunch of other really technical biochemical reasons, they can get across the cell membrane of the wall of the cell. They can get across the wall of the mitochondria. Not the mitochondria, sorry, the nucleus.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:13:55]:
Okay, Right.

Nathalie Niddam [00:13:56]:
So they get into the nucleus of the cell. What lives in the nucleus is your DNA.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:14:00]:
DNA.

Nathalie Niddam [00:14:01]:
And there they are able. And the way the DNA and proteins work is when you match up opposite ends of amino acids, they work as pairs. There's something about the. The bioregulator that allows the histone to unravel. It allows the DNA to unravel, just so. And now we get the binding of the bioregulator to the DNA. And what that does is it upregulates the production of proteins. And those proteins which the d.

Nathalie Niddam [00:14:28]:
The. The cell may not be making as efficiently or as effectively because it's aged, or maybe that DNA, the DNA is no longer working as efficiently. The cell now is able to rejuvenate and restore function at. From within. The bioregulators are the ones that are commercially available, the natural bioregulators. There's about 21 of them, which is not to say that that's all there is. Even back when Cavinson was alive, there was talk that he'd identified over 50. And there are now people that are building on his work that are discovering more.

Nathalie Niddam [00:15:04]:
So it's really exciting. But they are typically associated with specific glands and organs. Right. Now, a year or two ago, I would have said to you, they are specific to a gland and to an organ. I think that there's a bit more nuance to that because I know that in the case of the pineal gland bioregulator, for example, it actually has effects on the thymus gland. It has effects on the heart, like it seems to have.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:15:30]:
Which makes sense as well, right? Interconnected, going back to our original point. Yeah, yeah.

Nathalie Niddam [00:15:35]:
So it seems to have more. And now is that true of the cartilage bioregulator or the liver bioregulator? Maybe not so much. Those may be more specific. But it seems that there's definitely, you know, more halo effects on certain bioregulators than others. They also work together, interestingly, so you.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:15:55]:
Can stack them as well. Let's talk about some use cases. I think people listening will be interested to understand, like, you know, how can I do with them in my life? What should I do? Like, where do I get them? Like, how does this work, Natalie, Tell me more.

Nathalie Niddam [00:16:08]:
So. So definitely there's. There's. There are actually endless use cases. Right. So the thing that people talk about a lot might be biological age reversal. Now, this is the person who said a minute ago, anti aging is bullshit, but sorry about the potty mouth.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:16:26]:
But it's.

Nathalie Niddam [00:16:27]:
It's not that. It's. And biological age reversal is not. It's not that you're not aging, but what you're doing is you're rejuvenating. Like, imagine if you could rejuvenate your parts, right? Imagine that you have a car and the tires are wearing out. And imagine that you didn't necessarily have to go out and get new tires. Maybe there was a way that you could restore the tread on the tires. Right.

Nathalie Niddam [00:16:51]:
As they're wearing out. That's really the idea of the bioregulators with biological age. There are, there's now an increasing number of labs that will, that will run tests that look at DNA methylation patterns on your DNA and will say to you, Claudia, you are on paper 45 years old. And actually the way if we look at your, just looked at your DNA, you're showing up as a 36 year old, right? Yeah. Or, you know, so and so you're 45 years old and news is not as good in your case, you're showing up like a 70 year old. And so what does that mean? And what do you do about it? So the BIOREGA. So number one, you change your lifestyle. If you're, if you're the 70 year old in a 45 year old body, you start really thinking about your decisions, right?

Claudia von Boeselager [00:17:41]:
Yep.

Nathalie Niddam [00:17:42]:
And you start to think about, okay, maybe that bottle of wine every night is not so smart. And maybe, you know, deluding myself into thinking that all I need is three and a half hours of sleep every night is not so good. And thinking that, you know, the less I use my body, the longer it'll last. Not so good either. So. But I take a lot of vitamins. Yeah, no, it's not going to work. So, so that person's got some work to do.

Nathalie Niddam [00:18:09]:
The person who is younger than their age is doing, obviously doing a lot. Right.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:18:14]:
Yeah.

Nathalie Niddam [00:18:14]:
I do believe that there's a genetics piece to this as well. There's, there's a really interesting study that was done called. The only thing that's coming into my head right now is grimage. There was the Dunedin, the Dunedin PACE study where they followed it was in New Zealand and they took a bunch of small children and they, I think they're still following them to this day. And what they discovered is that actually early childhood events can very much affect how we age.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:18:47]:
So environmental events, divorce of parents, trauma.

Nathalie Niddam [00:18:52]:
That kind of thing. Now it doesn't mean that you can't reverse them, it doesn't mean that you can't change that outcome, but it does set you on a certain trajectory. Anyway, getting back to our bioregulators, if they can, they've been shown, and there's a couple of physicians out there doing studies here where using the bioregulators judiciously over time can help to reverse that biological age. When we're looking at biological age based on how our organs are aging. Right. So number one, there's that. Number two, in a Lot of the research that was done in Russia, they would often pair the bioregulators with conventional medicine. So this is an interesting concept because in our space, so often we'll take conventional medicine and we'll literally throw it under the bus where like, it's drugs, it's bad, it's horrible, it's, you know, and look, there's a lot about conventional medicine that could be better, I'm not gonna lie.

Nathalie Niddam [00:19:48]:
But sometimes if you have an acute condition, maybe, and maybe this is where, you know, where conventional medicine maybe is going to evolve, is that the drug is a really good intervention in the short term. But we, if we don't, and we know this, if we don't address the underlying mechanism of action here, if we don't fix the problem that's driving it in the place, all you're doing is using a drug and the downstream effects are that you've affected other pathways. Now you're going to need other drugs. And it's a never ending cycle. Right. With the bioregulators. There was one study where they were studying people with copd, so chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. And when they.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:20:29]:
Inflammation. Yeah, yeah.

Nathalie Niddam [00:20:31]:
And so when they paired, when they did the conventional treatment to help these people draw breath, I mean, they need to be able to breathe.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:20:39]:
Yeah, Important, right?

Nathalie Niddam [00:20:40]:
But then they paired it with certain bioregulators, which in that case, I think they may have been using the. There's a lung bioregulator and probably a thymus bioregulator. You know, they might, they probably paired a couple of others. I might throw in the blood vessel bioregulator just to improve blood flow. But they found that the people who got the bioregulators with the treatment had a far better and faster outcome than the people who only got the conventional treatment.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:21:07]:
I love this because I feel like this is almost where alternative longevity medicine could almost meet sort of traditional medicine in terms of pairing and having exponential results. And then you're repairing the system while treating the acute issue. So. Yeah, excellent point.

Nathalie Niddam [00:21:23]:
Really, it's, it's supportive. Right. There's another one where there's a, there's an immune bioregulator. Now this is a synthetic one. And we can get into the differences between the, the natural ones and the synthetics. But there's a synthetic bioregulator called. I call it Villon because I'm French, but you know, people call it Violon. So V I L O N.

Nathalie Niddam [00:21:44]:
Your computer will autocorrect it to violin. I'm telling you right now, just so you know. So when you've written something and it says violin, you'll. You'll know it's vlog. But Vlon was used, interestingly enough, in people who had had radiation therapy for cancer, and it helped after the fact to re. To restore their immune system. Right. And so we know.

Nathalie Niddam [00:22:08]:
So again, we know with cancer, I mean, this is a big deal. I'm never going to tell anyone that bioregulators are going to treat your cancer. But if you, let's say, have to have conventional treatment, because that's the way we're going to handle the tumor load, where we kind of drop the ball after that is we don't do anything to repair the body. And we know that chemotherapy and radiation, as effective as it may be to kill the cancer cells, it's going to go after healthy cells as well. Well, what if we spent some time on the other side of the. Of the treatment to help the person's immune system to come back online so that maybe it can reclaim that vigilance and that ability to say, oh, you don't belong here, and get rid of it.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:22:53]:
I love that. Yeah. I have a couple of friends, unfortunately, had to go through chemo, so I'm definitely going to be recommending that. Thank you for sharing. Natalie, if somebody is new to peptides, where would you say they should start with? Most conventional doctors are probably not that familiar with it. And then I'd love to touch on after the sort of natural versus synthetic peptides as well. But what should be in the minds of people listening to this that are new to peptides, where should they start with? What would you recommend?

Nathalie Niddam [00:23:23]:
You mean in terms of a peptide?

Claudia von Boeselager [00:23:24]:
Correct.

Nathalie Niddam [00:23:25]:
Yeah. So I will say to you, what I say to all the people who ask me this question is it depends. Yeah, it depends on what you have going on. It depends on your current state of health. It depends on a lot of things. Right. So if we're talking about bioregulators, and let's say you said to me, you know what, Nat? I just, like, I'm fairly healthy. I mean, look, lots of things could be better, but I don't have any major issues.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:23:50]:
Correct.

Nathalie Niddam [00:23:51]:
I really invested in. Yeah, I would be interested in just helping my body to give it a little boost, to kind of help it to age better. Right. So, excuse me. There are three bioregulators that I think and that have been identified. It's not just my thinking. It's, you know, I've. I stand on the shoulders of giants, like at the end of the day, I wish I was a researcher.

Nathalie Niddam [00:24:12]:
I wish I'd been in the lab when this stuff had been discovered, but I wasn't. So from what I've learned, read and gleaned and seen, I would put together a triad that is the pineal gland bioregulator, the blood vessel bioregulator, and the thymus gland bioregulator. And I'll explain to you why the thymus gland is your gland right here in the middle of your chest. It is the seat of your immunity. We know that our thymus gland starts to involute as of the age of 30. And so, you know, it's not really, by the time we get older, Even in our 40s or beyond, it's not working as well as it could be. Right. And we need those immune cells to be active.

Nathalie Niddam [00:24:52]:
We need the natural killer cells, we need the T cell, we need all the different cells in order for our immune system to respond properly to whatever we're facing. And so the thymus gland and what takes people out down the road is either an overactive or an underactive immune system.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:25:09]:
Yeah, right.

Nathalie Niddam [00:25:10]:
It all boils down to the immune system. If you have inflammation, if you have neuro, whatever it is, the immune system is playing a role and a very important role. So the thymus gland would be a gland that I would pay some attention to, the blood vessel bioregulator. Well, nothing good will happen in the body if we can't get nutrients to the tiniest little blood vessels, to the cells and remove waste products. Of course, we have the lymphatic system, that's important here. But the blood vessels are critical. And what the blood vessel bioregulator helps to do is it helps to restore the integrity of the lining of the endothelium, the lining of the blood vessels. And there's some really interesting work there as well, some really interesting papers that talk about the value of the blood vessel bioregulator playing a role with other bioregulators and maybe even drugs in cardiovascular issues or in blood pressure issues or even brain issues.

Nathalie Niddam [00:26:08]:
Because what often happens with the brain is we have reduced blood flow, the neurons start to die, all kinds of things start to happen. So blood vessel, so we can think clearly, so we can move clearly, so we can heal, so all of the things can happen. And then the pineal gland saving kind of the best for last is that tiny little pine shaped gland in the center of your brain that, I mean, if you think about it, it's crazy. It runs the show. Like how does like this tiny little pine nut thing run? The freaking show. This is the, this is where really I think for those of us who thinks it's that that health is nuts and bolts and doesn't have spirit or something else involved. Like think about this. A tiny little pine shaped structure in the center of your brain that drives.

Nathalie Niddam [00:27:00]:
It normalizes your melatonin production. It regulates your circadian rhythm. It actually has an overall kind of balancing effect on the endocrine system. It actually affects your immune system as well, immunity. It activates an enzyme called telomerase. Well, telomerase is the enzyme that kind of restores and maintains the length of the telomeres on the ends of your DNA so your DNA can keep replicating. I mean like it's pretty nutty master control, right? And there's a lot of people believe that there's a piece of spirituality to the maintenance of that, that gland, that little tiny structure. And so.

Nathalie Niddam [00:27:40]:
And it can calcify over time and somehow the pineal gland bioregulator helps this to restore function and form to this structure, to this gland. So those would be, that would be. That's like my holy triad. If you push me up against the wall. I said not only three. That's it. That would be the three. I wouldn't even try to sneak another one in.

Nathalie Niddam [00:28:01]:
Although, you know, it's a little bit like picking your favorite child. Right? Like really, you're going to leave the heart out or the liver or central nervous system.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:28:09]:
Yeah.

Nathalie Niddam [00:28:10]:
Not.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:28:11]:
But there you've got the three. Okay, so for people listening, right. So I know what I should be starting with. Where do I go? Who do I discuss this with? Maybe they flagged it with their primary care physician who's like, this isn't something. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Nathalie Niddam [00:28:25]:
Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:28:26]:
So where, where should people be looking? And then also let's discuss the synthetic versus the natural based.

Nathalie Niddam [00:28:32]:
So. Okay, well, I mean, I'll give myself a shameless plug. I do run a community called the Longevity Community on a platform other than the horrible meta world. And, and in there I have a, I have a course I'm running, you know, a year bioregulators program for certain members who want to take that on. And I do a fair bit of education there. There's podcasts, if you're a physician you can, there's, there's people like Dr. Melissa Peterson has the Human Longevity Institute. And I think they're starting to do a lot of education around the bioregulators.

Nathalie Niddam [00:29:11]:
There, I mean, bioregulators is still very new in this, in our part of the world. And so to get formal education in it is, is pretty tricky. There's so, but where you would buy them? So where I would get my bio, is that what you're asking? Kind of where you buy.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:29:28]:
So this is very helpful in terms of education and then also for purchasing as well. Yeah, yeah.

Nathalie Niddam [00:29:35]:
And so, and, and definitely there's more. There's an increasing number of practitioners, health coaches, whatever your case may be, who are integrating these into their practice. You know what? I don't, I mean, look, where I buy them is I get them from a company called Profound Health. They're based in the uk and the reason why I choose them is because they, they've now started manufacturing their own natural peptides. And unlike virtually any other brand you can find out there, I think they're the only ones that you can say, have full transparency on what's in that capsule, where it's coming from. And not only that, in order to be FDA compliant. So hopefully by the time this airs, they will be shipping to the U.S. out of the U.S.

Nathalie Niddam [00:30:26]:
in, in, in, in going through the, the insane process of becoming FDA compliant, they've had to analyze every single bioregulator that they manufacturer to understand exactly what's in there. And they themselves have learned stuff about bioregulators just by going through that exercise. And actually that segues beautifully into the conversation of natural bioregulators versus synthetic.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:30:56]:
Yeah.

Nathalie Niddam [00:30:56]:
So what the natural bioregulator is, which is what they sell and what's amazing about the, the natural bioregulators is you're actually getting, you're extracting the bioregulator from animal tissue. So the bad news is it's an animal product for people who are very focused on not using any animal products, but for people who are okay with that, what that means. And it's mammalian right now there are, I mean, there is a line of bioregulators that's derived from fish skin that's come out and I think it's just a different, it's going to offer different signaling qualities. I don't think it's better or worse. I think it's just going to be different. But going back to this, these are porcine derived. So originally they were bovine. Somewhere along the way in, in the motherland, somebody decided that they wanted to switch to porcine that may or may not have made it onto the fly box.

Nathalie Niddam [00:31:58]:
Regardless, I don't, you know, I don't know what they're using now. But I would say with nature's marvels, we know what's in the capsule. What's really interesting about the natural bioregulator is that you're not just getting the two to four amino acid sequence. You're also getting kind of like this cohort of supporting actors. And so when you, when I was learning about bioregulators originally, what they would say is that the natural bioregulator seems to take a little bit longer to take effect, but once it has, the effects last longer. The synthetic bioregulators is where the researchers have identified that two to four amino, like that amino acid chain. So for the pineal gland bioregulator, for example, that one is called epitalon, if it's synthetic. If it's natural, it's called endolutein.

Nathalie Niddam [00:32:51]:
And this is really important because for the longest time, people used epitalon for both. And the challenge with that is that the dosing for endo lutein is 10 milligrams a day, but the dosing for the synthetic epitalon is 100 to 1,000 micrograms a day.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:33:11]:
Big difference.

Nathalie Niddam [00:33:13]:
You had all these people using 10 milligrams a day of epitalin, and you still do. And it's. And I'm not going to say that it's necessary. I mean, I don't know how good or bad it is. You can get away with it, but you don't need to. And it may be overkill. So I don't know that there's a study out there that says, okay, what happens when you use 10 milligrams of Epital in a day? There are studies, research that shows 100 micrograms to a milligram. There are studies that show 10 milligrams of the natural, but they don't, you know, you don't have the other one.

Nathalie Niddam [00:33:44]:
In any event, with the synthetic, it's like, it's like a. It's like a bullseye. So it's going straight for that DNA. It's doing the one thing and that's all it's doing. So it's much faster acting. It can be much more helpful maybe for people who have a lot of autoimmune issues or sensitivity issues. And I would say that there's very few cases of negative side effects even with the natural. But for people who just really need a much faster effect or maybe are highly sensitive, the synthetic might be the better idea.

Nathalie Niddam [00:34:18]:
Those have to be synthesized in labs. Typically they are. They can be administered by subcutaneous injection. But because they're so small, you have a lot of new products come out. You've got sublingual sprays. You're seeing them in capsules, you're seeing them in transdermal products. Like it's. I think we're at a point now where people have kind of caught on to this and they're so fascinated and they're like, okay, nobody likes needles.

Nathalie Niddam [00:34:42]:
Some people, it's like a hard no. So how else can we make them available to people's systems? The challenge is that in the States the FDA has put Epital on. On the no flies list, which is fascinating to me. So none of the other bioregulators are there, just that one.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:35:01]:
Hopefully to be reversed. Yeah, I heard something about Merck and developing their own patentable version of something, but I don't know how true that is. Let's.

Nathalie Niddam [00:35:09]:
But it would make sense, right? Because think about what we talked about, what Epitalon does. If a drug company could harness that, modify it as they did with GLP1s and market it. Holy crow.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:35:23]:
Yeah, that's big, of course, there. Follow the money, right? Like, who benefits from this? Right? So let's see what's happening now with the change of administration and if some things start opening up around peptides as well. So that was really very, very helpful to understand. And would you say in terms of delivery mechanism, subcutaneous injection, oral, etc. Is there any ones that are better than others? Would you recommend, like what, what do.

Nathalie Niddam [00:35:50]:
You take both, depending on the situation? It depends. I mean, I'm sorry, and that's the worst answer, but it really kind of depends. It depends on personal preference. Now again, if you have someone who's vegan and will not touch animal products, then obviously the synthetic is a great solution. If, if. I mean, you know, if you want to stick to. I mean, I was going to say if you want to stick to the original research and science, the natural is going to be the way to go. But I think that that Cavinson also did studies on the synthetics on.

Nathalie Niddam [00:36:25]:
Because in a way that allowed him to see what exactly does this one thing do, right, Without. Without the, the entourage, if you will, of all the other actors that come along with. And I will say that in the natural there's no identifiable protein from the animal left. So for people, you know, like, there's no. It's a. It's like kind of like. I don't know if you've ever used master amino acid pattern, like the essential Amino acids like MAP is derived from fermented beans and they extract the amino. There's no bean protein left when you get to the supplement.

Nathalie Niddam [00:37:00]:
So this is the same principle. There's no. They're harvesting really what they need, but they're not taking the animal product with it or the animal protein rather. So I would say that it. If you want to be a bit of a purist, I would go to the naturals. There's a really interesting researcher by the name of Dr. Bill Lawrence who is doing a lot of. He's doing an extended like four or five year longevity study now using the natural bioregulators almost exclusively.

Nathalie Niddam [00:37:30]:
And he was working with Dr. Cavinson until a couple years ago when Dr. Cavinson passed away, unfortunately. And he. He almost exclusively uses the natural bioregulators. So. And the nice thing about the natural is you don't have to worry about who's making them and did they get it right? Because the bioregulators are actually very hard to synthesize. Like if you think about there are two bioregulators.

Nathalie Niddam [00:37:54]:
I think it's Thymogen and Villon. I think it's those two. I could be wrong. They're two amino acids. They're the same two amino acids, but they act differently because of the way that they're oriented in space as a 3D molecule. So it's actually really, really, really hard from a biochemistry perspective to manufacture them. So it adds a layer of complexity. You have to be really careful where you're getting them from and that they actually know what they're doing and testing their products.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:38:24]:
Very, very helpful advice. Yeah. And if people have questions, then just leave comments and we can try to get to them as well. So thank you for that. Let's move over to mindset. Nadia, I'd love to touch on this with you. So mindset for long and vibrant life. And as we know, and we've been discussing that longevity isn't just physical.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:38:42]:
Right. It's mental, emotional too. So what would you say or what would your be your advice as to which mindset shifts are essential for thriving as we age?

Nathalie Niddam [00:38:52]:
Hmm, that's such a good question. Wow, I'm gonna have to use that question. I think that, I think a mindset of. So there's a couple of different ones. Right. Number one, doing that inner work that we talked about earlier, understanding yourself, coming to peace with yourself, doing the work to identify what are the stories that are not. That may not be serving you, that you're carrying with you in Your life doing that work is, is literally a non negotiable. And it doesn't mean that bitter people and people with a lot of stuff don't live long because they do.

Nathalie Niddam [00:39:34]:
But to have that, that quality of life, that vitality, to, to make it worth living into your 90s and beyond, if that's your goal, coming to a sense of peace and acceptance and gratitude and joy, I mean, think about it. It's going to put you in a position where not only are you in a better place for yourself, but you're able to be, to show up so beautifully for the people around you. And, and the next one is community, right? Is surrounding yourself with people who share your same values, who share that, that, that kind of openness of spirit that allows so much joy and gratitude and abundance into your life. And that is a mindset because I, when I say ab, I don't mean that you get all the things that you want necessarily, but you're seeing the world, you're seeing that your cup is half full, you're seeing that, you know, if this didn't work out for me, there will be something else. And so getting into that space where I think it boils down to a certain degree of equanimity and with a big dose of joy and gratitude in there.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:40:46]:
Beautiful. You've interviewed so many experts on your podcast. What's the most impactful piece of advice you've heard that has changed the way you approach health and longevity?

Nathalie Niddam [00:40:57]:
I think it's what we've just talked about. I think, honestly, I think that there's no one supplement that's going to do it. I will say that learning about the bioregulators changed my own trajectory in a big way. Like professionally, personally, from my health, like, you know, my parents take the.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:41:14]:
It's, it's, it's that everybody benefits.

Nathalie Niddam [00:41:18]:
Everybody benefits. But I would say that this conversation that we're having, the conversation that's now emerging increasingly around the self, work around, you know, connecting and you don't have to be religious, but whatever. I think there's, there's a, whether it's an energy or a power, however you want to define it, how whatever resonates for you, you know, there's, or it's a higher sense of yourself, whatever the case may be, it's understanding that there are forces greater than ours that are around us, that surround us, that we can access, that we can tap into, you know, to, for what we need. But doing that work on ourselves, getting to that place of equanimity and, and joy and gratitude and an abundance mindset in, in the space we're in. Being always open and curious and, and resisting the temptation to kind of plant a flag on one thing and say, I'm gonna die on this hill, because this is what I believe. You've just completely killed science. Literally completely killed science.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:42:25]:
Love that. How do you stay motivated to continuously optimize your health? Nuts. And do you have any rituals or routines that anchor you?

Nathalie Niddam [00:42:35]:
I. Well, what do I. How do I stay motivated? It's, you know, it's. It's a little bit like changing your diet. It becomes a state of being. It's just what I do. And it doesn't mean that I'm rigid in my supplements. There's days I don't take supplements.

Nathalie Niddam [00:42:53]:
There's times, I mean, 90 of the time, I take my supplements on a trip. Sometimes when I'm on holidays, like on a real holiday.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:42:59]:
Yeah, I.

Nathalie Niddam [00:43:01]:
They stay home, right. Or they stay in my bag, even worse. But for me, it's this. I think it's. It. It comes down to this. This, just this love of life, right? Like, I, I love my life. I love this life.

Nathalie Niddam [00:43:21]:
I love what I do. Like, I'm really fulfilled by, by what I do. I adore. Like, I feel so blessed to be able to do what I do and call it some kind of job. Like, I don't even feel like it's a job exactly. Right. And so it's. And, and the, and the idea that I'm able to share information with people that can help them in some way in their own journeys.

Nathalie Niddam [00:43:47]:
And I'm sure you get these too. Like, we get emails from people. People reach out to us. I, like, I almost kind of can't believe it sometimes. Right. Like, and it's not that we gave them a recipe to be healthier or better, is that we opened a door for them that they stepped through and they, and it took them to that next person or that next practice or that next thing that allowed them to, to maintain, make progress in their own journey. So that's what really kind of keeps me going, honestly. And then.

Nathalie Niddam [00:44:16]:
And, or it drives me. It does not even keeping me going implies I want to stop. It's just that's what drive propels me. Right. And then in terms of my own practices, like right now, it's like, it's about, it's about the big picture for me. Right. So it's about keeping myself moving, keeping myself connected. Like, for a while there, I almost lost touch with my family because I was so busy and so focused on my career.

Nathalie Niddam [00:44:44]:
So kind of taking a breath a little bit and reminding myself that you know, we need all balance in all places and the people that are nearest and dearest to me really count in that equation. Like I can't just expect them to sit around on the sidelines waiting for me kind of thing. And you know, just stopping every day and during the day and moving my body and taking a breath and re centering those are, you know, those are probably my rituals. I mean I could talk to you about my sauna and my, my vibration plate and getting to the gym every morning, you know, as many mornings as I can at 7am because if it doesn't happen at 7, it's not going to happen.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:45:22]:
Another feeling as well. Yeah. No, but beautiful. Thank you for sharing. I think it's that being in service and having a why that's bigger than yourself with really what I noticed from people for myself as well. Like people are going to how do you do this? And so much or whatever and it's like it's not even about me. I've just. This is what I love.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:45:41]:
I'm curious. I'm constantly learning new things. It's such a gift and exactly something people call a job. I don't feel that this is a job.

Nathalie Niddam [00:45:48]:
No, no, not so much.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:45:50]:
It's so much fun. Can I ask you some longevity rapid fire questions? Nandley?

Nathalie Niddam [00:45:55]:
Fire away. I hope I have answers for you.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:45:59]:
Amazing. They're not too, too scary I think. So let's, let's jump in. So besides Peptides, because that would be the obvious one, what's a surprising biohack or longevity tool that has had the biggest impact on your health or a big impact. We could say.

Nathalie Niddam [00:46:16]:
I'm looking around like I have so many biohacks here it's insane. Actually one of the things like one of the things lately and this is a new thing and this will evolve over time. Right? But I just got sent this really low tech tool that I've been using every night that is making a huge difference in my mobility and it's from a company called Kineon and it's. And I don't even think it's on the market yet. It's called the Heal Plus. Have you seen this thing?

Claudia von Boeselager [00:46:45]:
Kineon rings a bell. I don't know, was I speaking to somebody or whatever? But maybe you can share with my audience.

Nathalie Niddam [00:46:52]:
I'm gonna show it to you. So Kineon is well known for the Move plus which is this little red light laser Device, which is really interesting because you can use it on a knee, on a shoulder, but you can also use it around your neck to irradiate your carotid arteries. But this new little thing that they've come up with, this is called the Heel Plus. It's. It's probably silicone or rubber or something. But what you do with this is you use it as a fascia release tool.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:47:21]:
Ooh, I need that for my foot.

Nathalie Niddam [00:47:24]:
Your foot. And so your fascia is really fascinating. So I've had a lot of. You know, I've had some knee pain because I've really stepped up my workouts. Well, I've noticed that if I. If I put this down on the ground and I put my cat. My calf on it and just let the weight of my leg. It hurts like crazy.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:47:42]:
Wow.

Nathalie Niddam [00:47:42]:
For the first couple of minutes, and then eventually the fascia releases, and guess what? My knee stops hurting.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:47:48]:
Wow.

Nathalie Niddam [00:47:49]:
And so this has been the coolest. It doesn't. You don't even have to plug it in. It's not particularly.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:47:56]:
You can travel with it. It's not heavy with it.

Nathalie Niddam [00:47:58]:
I mean, this is a little heavy, but you know what I mean? Like, so. So I don't know if that's the answer you were looking for.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:48:03]:
No, but that's. That's really cool. I'm. I'm like, I need to get one of these.

Nathalie Niddam [00:48:06]:
Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:48:07]:
Because I have. Yeah. With my foot from some injury just like this plantar fasciitis thing. That's really annoying. And it goes. And then it comes again, and it goes and comes again. But what's actually happening there, it's just because of these certain trigger points in that.

Nathalie Niddam [00:48:25]:
Here's what is really interesting. You know, we all worry about our bones. We worry about our muscles. We worry about tendons and ligaments and circulation and nerves and this and that. What we forget is that we're wrapped in this organ. It's as of 2018 now as an organ called fascia. And fascia is this wrap that wraps your whole, and it runs from the tips of your toes to the tip of your head. And interestingly enough, in a conversation I was just having with this doctor that I was interviewing, he said, you know, a lot of people come in here with a headache, and they'll be shocked to find out that it has something to do with their foot, because the fascia gets bound, it gets dehydrated, it dries out.

Nathalie Niddam [00:49:10]:
If you have an injury, you can have adhesions. You have energy gets trapped in fascia the qi, the energy meridians that traditional Chinese medicines work with, run through the fascia, and they come up in those trigger points through the fascia. And so if you can keep your fascia kind of healthy and flexible and hydrated and moving, everything else underneath, it works better. And so sometimes, quite often, a muscular injury or imbalance or a tendon or a ligament problem, it originated in the fascia. And so if we can release that fascia, the whole body grows. And if you think about it, as we age, when we shrink, it's that. That shrink wrap that's shrinking.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:50:00]:
It's like the. The vacuum is sucked in, taking up the life of it. This is really interesting. Okay. Got to check these out as well. Really, really exciting. And this ties a bit into what's been your most exciting purchase in the last six months, because I know you didn't buy that, so. And let's say $100 or $200 or less.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:50:17]:
We love specific.

Nathalie Niddam [00:50:18]:
What did I actually go buy? There's something I'm forgetting because I know I bought something, thinking, I can't believe I'm buying this, but I did. What did I buy? I mean, you know, again, like, we're. We're very fortunate that we don't often need to buy much. Yes. I got a really nice pair of shoes the other day. I know I bought something. I mean, a couple of years, a year ago, I bought a. I kind of.

Nathalie Niddam [00:50:48]:
I finally broke down and bought a vibration plate. But I've since then been. Been gifted with a power plate, which blows it out of the water. So I'm.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:50:59]:
What should I buy?

Nathalie Niddam [00:51:00]:
What did I. I. Kettlebells. I bought kettlebells. And I bought. Okay, this is. This is hilarious. I bought one of these.

Nathalie Niddam [00:51:10]:
So for a while, I was doing these boxing workouts at a gym, and I moved away from that gym, and so I don't box anymore. And I was kind of sad because it was something about boxing that really kind of satisfied. It just made me happy. Right. Which never hitting a person, only hitting bags only. And so I actually bought. I don't know if you've seen them on Instagram, but it's like a wall. It's a thing you install on your wall.

Nathalie Niddam [00:51:34]:
And it has. I think it's got six or seven lights on it. And the lights work. They play to the music. And then you punch. You punch the light as it lights up based on the music. It's so fun.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:51:47]:
This sounds great. And can you use, like, your knee as if you were kickboxing as well?

Nathalie Niddam [00:51:52]:
Well, not if you're, unless you're very, very flexible. So it is, I guess. And it's flat on the wall. So you wouldn't, you know, you wouldn't be able to kind of hit it with you. I mean you might be. You can do a round kick. Yeah, yeah. No, you could do a sidekick, but good workout, but definitely.

Nathalie Niddam [00:52:08]:
And, and so it works on your reflexes and it makes fun.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:52:13]:
And for my kids as well, it's like if you're. They're stressed from school or something. What's the name? So we can link it in the show notes.

Nathalie Niddam [00:52:19]:
Oh, so I got the cheap version. There's an expensive version and a cheap version. I went, I, I bought it from this company called Magellan. M A G E L. I'll look it up and I'll, I'll send it to you. You can put it in the show.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:52:31]:
Notes and it's called like a boxing wall unit.

Nathalie Niddam [00:52:35]:
I don't even know. Trust me.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:52:38]:
I, I just put it into Google here, I found a few things. Magellan music box machine with boxing gloves. There we go. Okay, cool. Yeah, amazing.

Nathalie Niddam [00:52:45]:
I figured I would, I would get like the low end before I invested in the higher end just to make sure that we were going.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:52:51]:
I know because how many devices and things do we have that just kind of end up in the graveyard? The waiting room, I should say.

Nathalie Niddam [00:52:57]:
Yeah, the waiting room. That's it. Well, in the gift room sometimes it gets gifted to someone.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:53:01]:
Very, very true. If you had a magic wand and could solve one age related challenge instantly. Nuts. What would it be?

Nathalie Niddam [00:53:11]:
One age related challenge. You know, if, if I, if I was going to do a physical one, it would be inflammation because I think that it would solve, you know, from a downstream, from an upstream to downstream effect. It would solve. Help to solve so many different things. But based on our conversation today, I think that it would have to be mindset beautiful.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:53:34]:
Can you imagine everyone had this like insane beautiful mindset walking around what. The world would be a different place, right?

Nathalie Niddam [00:53:41]:
And not only that, but people wouldn't, would get out of their way. They'd be like, I'm not. You know, they'd be like, oh, I'm not. I don't eat those foods. Not because I'm depriving myself because they don't make me feel good. How much would change? Right?

Claudia von Boeselager [00:53:53]:
Oh my goodness. Yeah, let's see. Maybe one day that one. This has been such an inspiring and informative conversation that. And for listeners wanting to dive deeper into Peptides longevity, optimizing Their health, Where can they find you? And see what you have to. We can link everything in the, in the show notes.

Nathalie Niddam [00:54:12]:
Thank you so much, Claudia. This has been a great conversation. I really enjoyed it. So you can find me on Instagram, Natalie Knittham, just my name. You can find my podcast, the Longevity with Natalie Knittham podcast. And then you can also, if you go to natnitum.com, which is my website, which is completely getting revamped right now. So please forgive me for the website that's there. But you can sign up for my newsletter and also learn about the Longevity community.

Nathalie Niddam [00:54:40]:
And joining that community, I would say would help would enable us to connect directly. I can, I teach some stuff in there. I do live Q and A's, I bring in experts, all the things.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:54:51]:
Beautiful. Do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts or message for my audience today?

Nathalie Niddam [00:54:59]:
I think my only parting thought is if you don't know where to begin and if you're sitting there going, okay, this is all really great, but this is all really overwhelming, just start with one small thing, whatever that may be for you. If you know that sleep is your problem. Sleep is the thing that if you can start to improve your sleep, it gets a whole lot easier to do everything else. It gets easier to make the decision to go for a workout, go for a walk, to make a better choice with your food, to stick to a plan. Everything gets easier when you're rested. So if you can work on that sleep piece or if you feel that, you know what, I'm so anxious I can't sleep. So maybe where you begin is learning how to balance your nervous system, maybe through breath work. Or it could be really simple.

Nathalie Niddam [00:55:56]:
It could just be a box breath a few times a day to help you to bring your system into alignment. But the basic message is one small thing, like, try what? I think the mistake that we all see people make, which is it's got the best intentions. People are like, okay, I gotta change my diet, I gotta start moving. I need to go to the gym, I need to all of the things I need to do all these things. And within like three days, they've completely. The wheels have come off the bus that they didn't even bolt them on right. So pick one thing, start with that thing. And when you feel that it's become a lifestyle instead of a job, you're ready to bring on the next thing so you can start stacking.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:56:37]:
Love that. Thank you so much for joining us, Natalie. It's been an absolute pleasure and thank you to your audience for tuning in. And don't forget to subscribe, share and leave a review if you enjoyed today's episode. Thanks again.

Nathalie Niddam [00:56:49]:
Thank you, Claudia. It's been great.