Shawn Wells 0:00  
If we want longevity, seek to understand the curious and don't believe that there are two boxes.

Claudia von Boeselager 0:09  
Are you ready to boost your longevity and unlock peak performance? Welcome to the Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast. I'm your host, Claudia von Boeselager, longevity, and peak performance coach. Each week we'll explore groundbreaking science, unravel longevity secrets share strategies to grow younger, and stay up to date with world-class health and peak performance pioneers. Everything you need to live longer, live better, and reach your fullest potential ready to defy aging, optimize health, and promote peak performance, visitLLinsider.com. For more.

Today's guest is Shaun Wells, who is a world-leading nutritional biochemist and expert on health optimization. He's been dubbed the world's greatest formulator bio hacktivist and keto authority. Shawn faced and overcame significant obstacles with his own health, weight issues, depression, autoimmune conditions, cervical disc replacements, and more. They say everything happens for a reason. And in Shawn's case, his health problems led him down a winding path that required him to find science-based solutions that sparked his personal passion for biohacking. He is known as the ingredient technologist and the scientist of ingredients, and he formulated over 1000 supplements, food, beverages, and cosmeceuticals. Shawn is a former Chief Clinical Dietitian with over a decade of clinical experience and a world-renowned thought leader on mitochondrial health. He's also the author of the energy formula, which has been recognized by USA Today in Forbes as well as an Amazon Best Seller in multiple categories. Welcome to the Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast. Sean, I'm very excited to have you on today.

Shawn Wells 1:59  
Thank you for having me on. I'm excited to be here.

Claudia von Boeselager 2:02  
Now that we've clarified names, Sean was just showing that he had an exchange student previously who was cloudier. So people asked as a Claudia's Claudia, having lived in 89 countries, I'm used to many different versions of my name, including the Chinese version. Claudia. I want to start with how you became an ingredient technologist, which I think is such a cool word in itself.

Shawn Wells 2:27  
Yeah, I mean, I made that up. Just so you know, I'm the scientist of ingredients. I am a biochemist, a dietitian, and a formulator. I've been doing all of those things for about 20 years, I've been patenting unique ingredients for maybe 15 years, and I have about 25 unique ingredients over 1000 supplements formulated, I flavored about 300 products, I've known as the world's greatest formulator something I did not give myself, but I think I've gotten to the top of the pack in that small and unique field. I think like, you know, if I think all the way back to my mom, I just turned 49. So like, my mom and I were born in the 70s. She had like Shaklee in the late 70s and early 80s. This is Linus Pauling had just kind of come out with this idea of orthomolecular dosing for vitamin C, which was kind of a breakthrough. Like, we had always thought of vitamins in such a way of, like, the RDA, that now became the rd I like in the US, so it's like, kind of like to stave off illness. So like vitamin C was thought of for scurvy. That kind of thing. So this idea of taking grams of vitamin C was, like, really shook up the idea of supplements in general at the time. And she had like that tackle box like, literally like I remember maybe 1981 she was selling Shaklee, which is a European brand. More of like a whole food kind of brand. And like she had the Vita li, which was like this whole food multivitamin she had like a little Vitamin E soft gel and you know, the big vitamin C, and then there was like, actually, like, whole food, like kind of chocolate bar. And this is like 1981

Claudia von Boeselager 4:36  
Wow, she's amazing and different.

Shawn Wells 4:42  
Right? So like, it was cool. Like, every time I was getting sick, like this was part of the protocol, you know, like these kinds of things like she'd open up as magic. You know, it's kind of like the kid's thing like, like my dad was into fishing, and it's kind of like similar to that. kind of thing with a little check box. So to the tackle box Yeah, exactly. So I just thought there was magic in that. And I always thought supplements held some kind of power. And I just found them fascinating that these ingredients could like to make an impact on this kind of level, especially when I started thinking about ortho molecular dosing and what some of these things would do. And then it started to be like, there were like, larger doses of B12. You know, like for energy, and it was just fascinating to me all this stuff, and then using protein powders. So, that's a big part of it. But I ended up having a difficult childhood, and in using food to sue that, I have fought depression quite a bit. And as I put on weight, then I got bullied at school. Like relentlessly badly, because not only was I an overweight boy, but I had fat legs and but you know, which like really led to, you know, harsh bullying even from teachers?

Claudia von Boeselager 6:14  
Sorry, with?

Shawn Wells 6:17  
Yeah, yeah, it's part of my path. But that led to me really getting sick over time. Because I hated myself, I hated my body. I had, like, these visions of taking a knife and cutting the fat off my body, I thought my body was gross, and my body was betraying me. And at some point, I just decided, like, I'm going to start working out. And I started using like supplements, like, you know, the whey protein and creatine had just come out. This was when I was in college. And I saw huge differences like I was using all these supplements and these bodybuilding magazines, and like, you know, I think at the time thinking that I'm going to transform my body, like these steroid guys that are clearly using a lot more than supplements in these magazines. Yeah. But if someone that had gone through most of my life was humiliated and powerless, I think it struck a chord, and I'm sure it did with a lot of young men in particular. At the time, I think there was a much better-nuanced understanding of fitness and bodybuilding and those kinds of things now, but nevertheless, protein, creatine, and a number of these ingredients were very effective for me and in short order. I transformed my body, and that was powerful to me. And then people were asking me about, like, what I did, and then I started working at GNC and vitamin shops and these, you know, Mom and Pop kind of supplement stores on the weekends and evenings, and people had come to see me just for my advice, and I couldn't stop reading all the magazines and books. And there was this book from Dr. Michael Colgan that worked with Olympic athletes, called optimum sports nutrition, where he was like stacking different amino acids together to elicit like G H responses and, and I just found all of this stuff. So fascinating. I was just doing a deep dive into it. And I started dreaming about this idea of becoming a formulator there was this one guy in the bodybuilding magazines, Dr. Mark Hoyer with Muscle Tech, and he was a cardiologist. And he wore like a white lab coat, and he had like the beakers and the bottles. Like, like, yeah, that would be so cool. And I was in school for business at a very elite business program at Babson College, like the number one business specialty school in the country, and doing very well. But I ended up going to the doctor. And he was like, oh my god, like you've had this massive transformation. And I was like, just going on and on about supplements. And I was just expecting, you know, an MD at the time, which, let's see, this was 94 I was expecting him to go those are stupid, you know, but instead, he saw my passion. And he drew out this lifeline. And it was, you know, I was 20 at the time, and then he drew out to AD, and he's like, He showed me this piece of paper he's like, why not be happy between here and here? And I was like, what? Like, it just blew my mind there was no for me there was no like Tony Robbins like Oprah's and let alone Instagram and all these influencers saying go chase your dreams like all I was hearing was, You need to finish up the school you need to go get a job, you need to pay your bills. And it was like this medical doctor telling me to go chase my dream as like, oh my god, like, like gave me permission to do this, but a gift. What a gift. And yeah, it ended up really sending me down that path. And like there would be no Shawn, you know, the ingredients colleges World's Greatest formulator without that guy, so you know, and that wasn't his responsibility. So just a quick nod to him like, yeah, like, like, he really made me who I am by just that one statement to me. So we never know, like, when we're going to have that kind of impact on a person. Yeah. And quite frankly, we can impact people the other way, too; we can break their dreams. And I have some stories like that where some words almost pushed me to the point of suicide along my path from actually a guidance counselor that told me my whole idea was stupid to go pursue this formulator position.

Claudia von Boeselager 11:12  
Glad you did listen to the counselor. Me too. Me too.

Shawn Wells 11:18  
So, you know, words are powerful. And yeah, I think about both of those men; luckily, I had almost killed myself with that guy literally sent me reeling like I just wasted all my time; he made fun of my body as well actually. And, and told me that this was stupid, a business student would fail and fail miserably and all this kind of stuff that I ended up not obviously taking my life and giving up the dream. And I decided to, like, you know, double down on it. It just made me so mad and kind of in an unhealthy way I thought of that guy every single day. I get fueled like, Whenever someone's like, let's go out and party. Let's go ahead and do this. Let's go ahead and do that. Like, you know, let's, let's go chill and relax. I was like, no, no, no. I am going to get straight A's I'm going to get into my dream program. I hate this guy.

Claudia von Boeselager 12:19  
So looking at the meta-view of it, right and seeing it was the gift and that to

Shawn Wells 12:25  
true. No, that is totally true. Like, luckily, it did turn out that way. And, and you know, now I see the bigger picture like that, where, you know, that was that was a gift as well. But yeah, that's that like led me down this path. And I got into my dream school in Chapel Hill and pursued nutrition and biochemistry became a Chief Clinical dietitian; I worked for about 10 years in hospital nursing homes, all the while I worked with supplement companies helping them with formulations with write-ups. And then I was like working at these booths at, you know, these various trade shows, and, and really doing formulations from the ground up with some of these companies. And then, I got hired by a big company here in Dallas, Dymatize, to help take them to sale and grow that company quite substantially. And then, I worked with Bio Trust, like some other companies, as the chief science officer. And I was over quality control r&d, supply chain, and regulatory at a number of these companies. And then I created my own company now where I do formulations regulatory and all that stuff, quality control for many companies. I've flavored hundreds of products. I started down the path of all these unique ingredients. And I have a team now in China like with over 100 scientists, I have two German scientists that are part of my team, Dr. Ralph Jaeger Dr. Martin Purpura, that is great with studies and intellectual property. So, you know, like my newest ingredient is caffeine metabolite para Xanthine. We have about 14 studies already finished and 40 patents filed. And it's just making its way to the market now and doing very well. So congratulations. Yeah, so that's, that's Yeah, and I have another one that's just releasing called Die leucine for muscle. So yeah, that's really cool. Everything that I've been able to accomplish, and I'm very blessed, I speak on stage and all over the world. I've spoken to probably 40 Different countries now, and I've been on over 1000 media experiences between radio podcasts, TV,

Claudia von Boeselager 14:58  
you're quite the ocean At this stage Yeah, I

Shawn Wells 15:01  
have a, I have a book called The energy formula that's on biohacking. That's a best seller that was listed on Forbes and USA Today. And it's just insane because this is just like, this wasn't what I was supposed to do with my life, you know, to business

Claudia von Boeselager 15:20  
supposed to, right? Yeah. Yeah. And,

Shawn Wells 15:24  
and like I said, like if this one guy didn't, you know, talk to me and really maybe this other negative voice, like you're saying, like, you know, I wouldn't be who I am. So it's a unique path. And it definitely involves the hero's journey, I battled a lot of autoimmune issues. And I kind of skipped over that I was in bed for six months with Epstein Barr, and I've had a brain tumor and there's just been a lot of health issues along the way and a lot of learnings and, most recently, a lot, a lot of work in psychedelics and in doing some deep internal work there to really free myself from a lot of the chains that have been on me through my life, a lot of the insecurity and hustle and grind and all that kind of mindset, the wounded masculine. And yeah, I'm very proud to make it's where I've made it. And I feel like now I have the accomplishment. And I have inner peace. So

Claudia von Boeselager 16:35  
Wow. The circle is becoming a whole again. Yes. Thank you for sharing that. That's really beautiful. I mean, look, we're all on our different journeys, right, and our hero's journey. And my philosophy is I share my thinking around the hero's journey is that in a lifetime, you go through the hero's journey several times because I feel like with every awakening, you set new, new views of the world. And then you're living in that space until you actually have a further awakening, hopefully, right? And then you keep going right and sharing that with the world as well. So everyone has a different view. But that was my more recent acid rotation of that also. And I think that's beautiful. Yeah, and human. Yeah. So a load of stuff there. I'd love to dig into it. You've covered a lot of space and innovation. And first of all, thank you so much. And I honor you for being vulnerable and sharing that as well. And I think the world needs more of that. And helping and I think, particularly men suffer with having to have this image that, you know, we're in motion, and we're fine. And we're tough. And I think it's really difficult. And the more I'm learning about it and looking into it, yes, okay, women have a lot of things to do and to step up and need support, but actually, men are really suffering as well. And I think that that support network for men is not as well there as it is 100% 100%.

Shawn Wells 18:00  
Like I just said, men's mental health week, and I talk a lot about my battles with depression and suicidal thoughts and things like that, and 19 out of 20 men won't get help, like, won't get therapy, like it's, it's epidemic, like how bad it is with men that we think it's weakness, we think it's, you know, vulnerability is pathetic, like, you know, all of these kinds of things. And I'm definitely here with a message of my vulnerability. If anything feels bold and courageous, I have stepped into the role of being the warrior king. After a number of journeys and inner work that I've done, I am the strongest I've ever been as a man by being vulnerable and showing other men how to do that. And also, providing a safe space for women and not being predatory towards women have been a big part of my journey. So encouraging men showing them vulnerability, and how that strength and then providing that safe container.

Claudia von Boeselager 19:13  
So beautiful. Yeah, that's actually a topic I'm digging into of late this year, the divine masculine, divine feminine, and how men can actually help women show up as the best version of themselves. And as someone who suffered sexual abuse as an eight-year-old, it's taken a long journey to actually just change that perception and that shift as well. So that's part of the hero's journey, right of these different experiences that we have. And then it's how we view them and changing how we view them from as I used to perceive some of them as like these things happen to me to taking out and being like, what did I gain from them? And like, what are the things I wouldn't have had if those experiences not happen to me for different things that have happened in my life as well? I think it makes life so much more interesting, so much more beautiful. And the ability then to connect and be vulnerable and share compassion with people from all walks of life is so much more enriching had, you know, thanks to these different experiences versus, you know, had everything has been happy, clappy might just be living in a very high shallow level along the way. So hats off to you, Sean. And thank you for sharing this and supporting men; I think it's such an important area for the world in general. So, yeah,

Shawn Wells 20:31  
thank you for sharing what you just shared on stuff that happened to you one of the things that I've come to believe or learn; I don't know if you've ever watched the egg; it's an eight-minute video; it's on YouTube, I would encourage your viewer's listeners to watch it, maybe you can list it in the show notes. But also, if anyone's listening, just go to YouTube, and watch the egg. It's a really great group that animates this and puts it together, it's a short story about someone that passes away and this interpretation of life as multiple lives. But it's so much deeper than that, like in that, like, we are all sort of like one being, if you will, like when you explore this, this whole thing and like that's probably the bigger lesson in life, how we're also deeply connected. And if I do something to you, I'm doing it to myself, or vice versa. It's just like, when I project pain on you, you know, or I project love on you. It's like I'm projecting my internal environment onto you. And it's how I interpret you. It's how I met the lens I'm viewing you through, by myself, but it's a beautiful story. And one of the concepts is that we choose this life. I love this idea because I move out of being the victim, To the victor of my story. I want to talk about the ultimate hero's journey. If I choose this life, I choose not just have this life happen to me, and I did a good job. I chose this life. So I would learn the lessons. That's very empowering. And I'm here for a reason. I'm here to gain these lessons. I wanted to learn these lessons. And I have done my best with them. And instead of me being the victim, I am the victor in the story. And that's a huge paradigm shift to me, like taking your power back. Yeah, taking my power back. And, you know, with most people, if anyone talked to them, like, like you talk to yourself, you know, you wouldn't be their friend, right? Like if you're the way that you inner dialogue. Yeah. So, has anyone talked to you like that? You would be like, That's gross. In particular. You're out of here. You tolerate it to yourself.

Claudia von Boeselager 23:16  
Yeah, I mean, I teach my clients this as well, and I need to practice myself. It's like, Are you your biggest bully? Or are you your biggest cheerleader? And are you constantly beating yourself? I used to beat myself up all the time. Perfect. Like hyper achiever? Nothing was good enough for everyone else. It was okay, but for me, I was.

Shawn Wells 23:36  
Yeah, same. Yeah, same. The standard was impossible. Yeah. And I really bought into like all that kind of like, you know, ultra males like David Goggins like Gary Vee, like hustle and grind. Like, you know, like, I was watching Arnold and Sylvester Stallone. It's like how, like you, you got to withstand the pain and like, a real man knows how to like to dissociate like hell like, and I found that, you know, one of my most recent journeys, I was like crying, sobbing and shaking for hours and hours and hours. And I realized that I had spent most of my life dissociated. Whatever it is, like I was never in my body. I was never feeling anything because it was too much. I'm also an empath, a highly sensitive person HSP. And so, like, I feel things on a very deep level. And so between the abuse that I was surrounded by, and what I was doing to myself, like, they only made it like with Standard Oil was to just be dissociated.

Claudia von Boeselager 24:48  
I did the same I was sent to boarding school, I was joined to join my older sister, and I came to a conclusion as a 12-year old was in a different country. I was unhappy, unhappy there. I didn't want to be So, my conclusion at the time as a 12-year-old was that my parents abandoned me and that they didn't care anymore. And that's when I completely shut down. And then I thought, what people don't actually care if I'm upset, so I better just put on a facade and pretend everything is okay. And completely pushed down pain and emotion. And it's taken until about, like, five, six years ago to actually be able to talk about emotions, like anyone else I'm super happy to help connect with. But to talk about that myself was really, really different. I just wasn't able to. So yeah, I totally relate to that as well. And it's incredible how professional we can become at just shutting things down. Just not even going there. And how unhealthy that is, because essentially, then I also had health issues.

Shawn Wells 25:45  
Yeah, exactly. You can push way past the pain. I mean, cloud-like I almost died, I can think of like 15 Different times where it was like, if I was in my body, the red lights would have been going off for like, months, you know, it's like the car like says low oil, the engines like overheating, there's smoke coming from the radiator, like the engines, SOS, like, the tires, like starting to wobble. I'm like still driving down the road like, like, just because I'm not even in the car. So I don't even know what's going on. I'm still pushing the gas, like, as hard as I can. And if I was in my body, like, and it seems like oh, it's like some kind of award that you should win for, like how much pain you can withstand and, and it's not like, I was just never in my body to know the damage I was doing to my body. How hard I was pushing myself way past where I should have already sought help. I should have had interventions, I should have had self-care, and I should have taken time off. I should have stopped being around these people or these things that are robbing me of my help. But I wasn't listening to any of that I was just dissociated. And then I'm almost dead. Many times.

Claudia von Boeselager 27:15  
It's amazing how you made it through, though, right? That you overcame? And was there like an inner voice in you that is like, I know, I meant for more? What was that inner talk about pushing through,

Shawn Wells 27:26  
you know, the biohacking. You know, you talk about kind of the multiple hero's journeys, like sometimes the biohacking pulled me out of my sickness. But also, the biohacking was a way for me to do even more and hurt myself even more and survive it. So I became really good at doing twice as much as everyone else. And using all the bio hacks to keep myself going. I knew all the chemicals, I knew all the little hacks to, like, get myself back on track, if I was sick, if I got two hours of sleep, if I like was overstressed, and you know, whatever it was like I knew how to handle it, I can just do this take that it was

Claudia von Boeselager 28:15  
to the detriment of yourself, though. I mean, you were like, any other person would have collapsed by then and been in hospital, but you knew how to keep the fumes going.

Shawn Wells 28:24  
Exactly. You know, there's a beauty to that, in that I've learned so much about my body and what works. And I was always pushing too hard. And that's where doing some of this work and psychedelics and this inner work that I've done has really brought balance to me where now I see all the brilliance and incredible gifts and like the bio hacks and the supplement knowledge and nutrition knowledge and all these different things. And I, as I said, I have a lot more inner peace, a lot less of that hustle and grind and more of Hustle and Flow. Like I have to be in the sympathetic nervous system. Sometimes you got to be in your, in your male, your masculine, your Puma, sometimes you gotta go chase it, you gotta go get it, you gotta hustle, right? Like, Oh, of course, this is a part of life. You got to chase things down sometimes. But, you know, in this Freudian animal energies, it's like, there's the Puma that is like that masculine. Then there's the snake which is like grounded energy and also can shed its skin and be transformed. And then there's the Condor energy, which is like the more of that feminine energy where it's kind of gliding and you know, manifesting and there's, you know, letting things come and nurturing and you know, all of those kinds of things. And there isn't the right energy. Anyone that's listening, like, if you're a man, it's Don't just be masculine if you're a woman, don't just be in feminine. And just Condor isn't the perfect way. Like, it's really this balance of a salon flow, and it's being in the sympathetic nervous system and parasympathetic nervous system. It's just we're in an ultra-masculine eyes world. And we are in this wounded Kuma energy all the time. And we're in the sympathetic or ultra-sympathetic nervous system all the time. And we're not really seeking ease, we're not really taking breaks, we're not really doing enough self-care for ourselves, so and that's something that I see in like a lot of the masterminds and circles I'm in with millionaires, billionaires, CEOs, celebrities, just it's almost like 90% of all these people I talked to have this trauma, history. And even with men, I would say about 40% of them have been sexually abused, and you're not hearing about that, you know, you never hear that man would never talk about that, like so now that we're there's still a lot of work to do. But luckily, you know, we are getting some of these circles now. And people are interacting and sharing their stories, and there is more work happening in psychedelics there is more on biohacking that's coming through that is more of that feminine energy with grounding, journaling, breath work, you know, stretching yoga, like, you know, all of these kinds of things are finally being seen for what they are, and promoting longevity promoting that balance, I think we're seeing that. It's not about pushing the limits. Now we're seeing it as resilience comes from centeredness. And yes, there are times like this hormetic concept where you push that circle outwards, and you can grow that circle. But to ease you, you reside in the center. And the bigger that circle is, the more resilience you have, the more you can have this, this kind of use stress, like capacity Allostatic capacity, like where you deal with stress to a greater degree, your bucket, your stress bucket, this allostatic load. And capacity is like a bigger bucket so that you can handle more. And I think that idea of centeredness and resilience is now coming through a stronger message rather than pushing to the edge and staying at the edge.

Claudia von Boeselager 32:56  
And I think it's, it's, as you said, the combination so it's, you know, putting yourself outside of your comfort zone growth challenges, allowing yourself to be in a stress state where needed, like in a punctual thing, but having the strategies and tools to recenter to become grounded again, to become rebalanced to calm the nervous system. So almost with like your heart rate variability right there, and then get it down again. Right, so, so beautiful. I have a whole list of questions that we've gotten completely off-topic when I absolutely love our conversation. This is an area that I love having deep conversations on. So this was quite a delight, Shawn, to discover you're on this path and this journey as well. And what you're sharing too, I think for people listening, of course, questions are also around, you know, supplementation for longevity, what is the formulations and the supplements, people should be looking at? What excites you most about the longevity space and in terms of supporting it with different stacks and supplement ingredients that you're using, etc.? So could you talk a bit about that?

Shawn Wells 34:03  
I got all that. I got. I got it. Even though we went all Whoo, and all that for you, too. So for those of you that stuck around, it's worth the science right now. Are you ready? Okay. So, polyphenols are associated with anti-aging and blue zones all over the world. You see, these anti-aging molecules are powerful in the way they affect the body. You've got things like where's it in Tara stilbene and resveratrol EGC Jean catechins face it in apigenin. These are powerful, powerful compounds that affect anti-aging and the sirtuin genes. These are the resilience genes, the anti-aging genes that affect how long your telomeres are, or some people like to say telomeres. And, so this is, I think, one of the most important things and for me in my research thus far, there is only one phenol that stands out above the rest that is not resveratrol or Terra stilbene or EGCG, which are very common. It is face attend, which you can find in the strawberries, and maybe apigenin I would take apigenin which comes from parsley; I would take that one at night it has a little bit of a sedative effect. So five to 10 during the day and apigenin at night are the two most powerful they've been studied side by side with a number of different polyphenols, and those come above everything else. So those two next up, and by the way, they actually protect NAD by inhibiting NADH, also known as CD 38. So NAD is like your mitochondria fuel to help make ATP. They are super important for DNA and, again, anti-aging, so I love those. Next up, and by the way, Mito is just the next keto. So I'm all about mitochondrial health and mitochondrial biogenesis, which is the creation of new mitochondria and preventing mitochondrial dysfunction or citizens, which is like the kind of death of the cell. Yeah. So And speaking of protecting citizens, the kind of death of this Yes, analytics, yes or no therapeutics? Yeah, exactly. AKG alpha-ketoglutarate is a powerful compound as well. So that's one of the TCA Citric Acid Cycle intermediates. Similar to malic acid, citric acid, if you remember that kind of ATP crank, you know, the Krebs cycle. So AKG so we got AKG Vysa 10 apigenin. Next up to make NAD, you probably heard about nm n, which they're trying to take off the market; unfortunately, you probably heard of nr, which is nicotinamide. riboside, also called True nitrogen. I prefer NFN. But I really like nicotinic acid, which is the full flush, really cheap, straightforward niacin. Now, the problem with that is that the doses I'm talking about that really move the needle it's 500 milligrams two times a day; this is going to give you a Paris thesis like you will look like you have a sunburn. for like an hour, your skin will edge like you'll feel hot like it's kind of intense, but you can get used to it over time. But I do like the full flush version, not the nicotine amide or the inositol hit hex and a codename like these nonflush versions; I like the full flush version; what would kind of be the best stack would be taking nm n and the full flush nice and the nicotinic acid that's going to promote more NAD production. And now you're already taking things that are inhibiting the breakdown of NAD, NAD A's, this enzyme also called CD 38. So you're inhibiting the breakdown of NAD. You're promoting NAD. As we age, NAD production goes down, and a VAs the breakdown of it goes up. So it's a double whammy. So you know we're working on those fronts. Next up, there is a specific antioxidant that's unique that may end up becoming a vitamin, a new vitamin. This hasn't happened for many, many, many decades. And it's called Ergo theanine it's a trace amino acid that's found in mushrooms. The research is extremely compelling. You have a unique transporter system for this nutrient in your body. You have a unique storage system for it in your body. This tells you how important it is to your body if you have these things, and yet no one's talking about it. Almost no one knows about it, and it's a very low dose, anywhere from five to 20 milligrams a day, so this one literally protects the mitochondria, promotes mitochondrial biogenesis, inhibits mitochondrial dysfunction like saves mitochondria, and we found that cellular antioxidants actually are fairly equivocal in the research in that there is actually a time for cells to go through Do these redox reactions where you're kind of impairing signaling when you're taking too many antioxidants. So, for example, cancer cells, you don't want to protect those, you know, and a lot of times in these high-dose antioxidant studies, that's what they saw. They saw increased rates of cancer and things like that. That's not the case with Ergo thymine in the mitochondria really is more important than I believe protecting the cell in the same way via antioxidants. So the next one up is cleaning out the cell with something called a toughie G. And then even including my toffee g, where you're cleaning out the mitochondria. And there's a unique ingredient that's a poly amine called spermidine. Does this that has definitely gotten a lot of attention? I think people have been underdosing it and not using the pure form. They've been using this wheat-based form. Using many capsules to get one milligram, You can now get a pure form. And I would take there are some new data showing that like 3.3 to five milligrams is kind of like where you're starting to move the needle, this one milligram is not affected. So, and that's been shown in a few human studies now, so, if I'm to go through my anti-aging stack right now, so we got spermidine Five, milligrams Ergo thymine five, the 20 milligrams and Mn, I would take 500 milligrams maybe twice a day. With niacin, I would take 100 milligrams full flush nicotinic acid wants to once or twice a day, especially a great time to take that full flush niacin is when if you're getting into a red light sauna, it would be great time to bring that peripheral blood flow vascularization to the surface and then get that mitochondrial effect really enhanced and augment. So Vysa 10 Maybe liposomal form of ice 10 and apigenin. Maybe better apigenin at night. Face it in during the day. And I think that was, yet I believe that's my stack

Claudia von Boeselager 42:36  
as well. Yeah, yeah. We got that in. Amazing. What are you taking? Every day take all

Shawn Wells 42:43  
those things. Oh, the last thing I forgot to mention. Maybe my most and most important anti-aging compound, die hydro Berberine. This is one that I've patented. But I looked at Berberine Berberine was already outperforming Metformin, Metformin has been used. Right now, it's in a study with over 10,000 people in the United States for anti-aging, studying that in nondiabetics, and 1000. People like that are like a study like that's never been done; Metformin has been used for 25-plus years for anti-aging outside of diabetes and insulin resistance. So yes, there is an impact of absolutely with advanced glycation end products also called ages, aptly called ages, right that when we have elevated blood sugar, elevated insulin, there is an issue there where blood sugar damage is damaging these tissues, right? And we do see that when you have elevated hemoglobin, a one C and all those things, and fasting blood glucose and all that. But what hasn't really been discussed is that the lower insulin is, the lower blood sugar is, the longer you live, and this is past the range that you know is even within normal limits. So why is that? Because we see all these growth factors go up, we see a tapa G, and my toffee G goes up, we see growth hormone go up. All of these things that are healing, anti-aging, cleaning up almost like if you remember, like I like to think of autophagy almost like if you've ever defragged your computer's disk drive, like I remember cleaning things up and storing things and compare things and like compartmentalizing Yeah, exactly. And so that's happening, and that actually happens in your brain at night, too, by the way. And those growth factors in the brain are things like BDNF, brain-derived neurotrophic factor, NGF nerve growth factor mTOR, and the Rain, which is muscle protein sorry is protein synthesis, although there is muscle protein synthesis, which is important for aging we can talk about. So, yes, die hydro Berberine is more effective and more bioavailable than Berberine, and Berberine outperforms Metformin. So dihydrate Berberine, you avoid the GI distress, your doses are much lower, it lasts longer, and plasma, so you're looking at about 200 milligrams twice a day instead of 500 milligrams three times a day. And so this is a powerful anti-aging compound. So, now getting into the brain or getting into next

Claudia von Boeselager 45:46  
last one question before we hit the break, you mentioned that low glycemic levels of rhinitis are seen as very beneficial, but does it get to a point where it's detrimental? And I asked because I was doing the trial of levels health, their continuous glucose monitor. And even though I was optimizing my sleep and diet, etc., because I was doing longer windows of intermittent fasting. I was becoming hyper hypoglycemic at night with my aura ring, I could see that I was waking up, I didn't realize that I was waking up. But I was like, What's going on cortisol released from the leverage signals to keep the production going? So where's the level that it's beneficial versus the cortisol response and becoming detrimental?

Shawn Wells 46:29  
Yeah, that's a great question. And it just depends on how tuned your body is to being in the sympathetic nervous system and using cortisol often, like, you've like entrained your body to think that it needs a certain amount of glucose. Because it never knows how deep the stress is going to be. So the more you can de-stress anti-stress, the less of a strong result that's going to be, but also, you're right, and it does seem like women are more prone to that then men, like men seem to be able to go longer with like deeper into keto and longer fasting, and I think it's just, you know, again, if you're past the age of menarche and pre-menopausal, then you're in a phase of life where reproduction is important and being able to maintain another life is important. So your body kind of holds on to more thinking that's a strong possibility versus a man. So you know, there are gender differences, for sure. And that's one I've seen pretty consistently. I think like if you're postmenopausal like you can, you can get away with a little bit more when it comes to fasting or keto or some of those things. I do know that with keto in particular, and kind of the ease of fasting and keto, the more muscle you have, the easier it is to maintain mutagenesis. And that's because you have these glute four receptors on the muscle that take up blood glucose and shuttle it into the muscle. So, you know, I've had friends I had one guy that was a huge bodybuilder, and he could have 150 grams of carbs a day and still be in ketosis. Wow. You know, and I can you know, when I'm, I can do 50 grams. And then if I'm really active and doing a lot of things playing volleyball, like, you know, I can, I can have more. But, you know, some women I know that I feel like if you're more sedentary if you have less muscle mass, then you might need to be at like 20 grams, you know, like, it's just, it's harder, it's gonna be harder,

Claudia von Boeselager 49:01  
different. Yeah. I mean, if I've, when I've done keto diet, and I've measured with the Abbott Laboratories, but finger prick test, it's I haven't gotten over to Mars. I mean, I found that really tricky to do as well; again, I guess everybody's different. But I've moved away from the ketogenic diet, even though there are phases where I think it is optimal. I also think, according to the hormone cycle, where women are, and in general, I think with fasting, there was this huge trend, and everyone should fast all the time. And I've seen some, some clients and they're suffering and they're exhausted, like, they're totally mineral depleted, and they're not even eating proper food. They're eating like one salad. They're like, small eating windows. Anyway, so it's with caution. And I think for men, typically, it's a bit easier than for women, right?

Shawn Wells 49:46  
Yeah, I agree. No, so yeah, absolutely. Be careful with it. And you know, some people really like the idea and this may vibe with you. I haven't really experimented with it much but some people that I am friends with Uh huh. had great success with is like Carb Backloading. So like having carbs at the end of the day and loading on your carbs at the end of the day. And there is a lot of good data that in the morning, you know, having like more of a ketogenic meal, like kind of the bulletproof coffee or you know, whatever, like, Gene, high-fat breakfast is, is the way to go and avoiding carbs, especially first thing in the morning, like, you really want to like, I think of carbs as like, you have to earn them, you do not need carbs. So when you're active, when your body's moving, you're gonna have carbs. So like, that's where he when you first wake up, you haven't been active yet. You've been sedentary and that's okay, that's a good thing. So if you're going to eat first thing, have like a high fat, high protein meal. Yeah, and have your carbs like later in the day. And especially towards the end of the day is this concept after you've been active the whole day. And the hormonal response to your point is actually much better. So

Claudia von Boeselager 51:07  
and for sleep as well. I find. Personally, I've noticed a big difference as well. As much more helpful than just having a steak and a salad for dinner. Even with healthy fats. Exactly. Yeah. Okay, so yeah, so now the more I got the brain going,

Shawn Wells 51:23  
the brain, BDNF brain-derived neurotrophic factor is neuroplasticity, right? So neuroplasticity is like the resilience of the brain, the youthfulness of the brain. There are two types of learning that you have there's crystallized and fluid intelligence, right? So crystallized is like how we get smarter when we get older, like where we get better and better and better at something like that we've done over and over and over. So our box is kind of getting smaller and smaller. This is why we kind of get

Claudia von Boeselager 52:00  
set in our ways. Our ways. That's a great way to put it. Yeah, ingrained. It's the superhighway in a certain way.

Shawn Wells 52:08  
Learning new things is very difficult, learning a new language learning a new instrument, you know, things like that are harder going to a new country, being around different cultures, dealing with how society is changing. That kind of stuff, right? It wasn't like there wasn't ours again. That's crystallized intelligence. And that does have an advantage in that, like, you know, if we're driving to work, we could get there faster than some young person that's, you know, because we've done it 100 times, and we know all the shortcuts and all those kinds of things, but the young person has fluid intelligence. And that is the kind of youthful resilience of the brain, and in BDNF, this brain-derived neurotrophic factor protein promotes the growth, creation, maintenance, and protection of neurons, the brain cells. So there are very few things that do this. And some of these polyphenols actually do that. It hasn't been shown with face-to-10 or apigenin. But I'm 99% sure, given if I extrapolate other polyphenol data over that, it does happen. But there is a really cool, you've probably heard of Lion's Mane for this, especially if you know Paul Stamets, micro-dosing stack, and those kinds of things. It works. But there's a unique compound called seven, eight, dihydroxy flavum. Okay, yes, actually works better than injected BDNF. This is insane. So and then there's actually a metabolite of that called for DMA, seven, eight dihydroxy five,

Claudia von Boeselager 53:54  
someone who did chemistry and

Shawn Wells 53:58  
so I've actually been stacking the two of these together, this molecule and its metabolite, and I do feel like a youthfulness to the brain; it's also something I make post journey after I have a psychedelic experience to keep my brain in that neuroplastic state so that I can readily make changes that are so that I can be in a position for my brain to create these folds and these new habits right now and make these new connections and connect the synapses in all these all-new ways. When whenever you have an epiphany, that's like synapses connecting like two dots that have never been connected before. Right That said, you

Claudia von Boeselager 54:44  
need to reach for the seven-eight diet dry oxy for DNA

Shawn Wells 54:50  
hydroxy llevan and for DMA seven, eight dihydroxy flavors so those are really cool. You just

Claudia von Boeselager 54:58  
always have them handy, and you do Still, yes,

Shawn Wells 55:01  
yes, yes. All right. So hey, I got a couple more. So muscle grip strength is the number one predictor of how well we're aging. This has to do with how we're activating our muscles neurologically and how well we can recruit muscle fibers. Which, I'm sure you've seen, like if you've gone to the gym, there's all these, you know, the big steroid guys that are, Yeah, they're lifting a lot of weight and hypertrophy, the size of the muscle matters. But there's something else you've probably seen, like, Who's that guy is like, half the size is doing the same way? Well, that's because he's done it the hard way. one, but two, he's neurologically learned how to recruit that muscle better. So that's where the mind-muscle connection comes in. Can

Claudia von Boeselager 55:54  
you explain that

Shawn Wells 55:55  
a bit better? Yeah, there's, there's literally like that. Like I'm talking about the firing of one of the synapses into the recruitment of the muscle, it's an electric contraction, it has to do with calcium ions. I don't know if you've ever had a frog. And you can like the muscle in calcium like liquid, and it's like, it makes the thing well, like jump. It's fascinating. But yes, it's these are electrical reactions. The body is an electrical body system, and we can recruit this muscle, and there can be more like greater nervous system recruitment, like with more of that training, like, the more like, for example. I don't know, like on video, like I can, like,

Claudia von Boeselager 56:50  
are you okay with the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie? Right, right. So

Shawn Wells 56:53  
like, that's a learning. So for people that are listening, you probably can't see it, but I can recruit my pecs, I can make my pecs jump, I can go like left and right, I can go at the same time. That's not something you're born with. That is nervous system training. And that's actually where like, there's a lot of benefit to this posing that bodybuilders do like when they're when they're like learning how to like, you know, they're, they're flexing, but it's like, you know, you're kind of like, learning like, okay, like, if I do it this, you know, and it's like, Okay, I'm getting a little bit more recruitment like this. And it's like, okay, so this is like,

Claudia von Boeselager 57:35  
we're flexing for those listening. We're flexing our arms like bodies.

Shawn Wells 57:41  
Yeah. So yeah. And there's, there's something to that, like, knowing how to use your body. Knowing how to recruit these muscles properly, you have way more strength in these muscles than you think. Yes, they could get bigger. But before that, you're learning how to recruit them like that first so many weeks, it's just you learning how to turn on those muscles. It's a very fascinating process. And you can spend a lifetime getting better at just that before the muscle even gets bigger. So very cool. Right? Yeah. Yes, grip strength. And so that's very important. And also the more muscle you have, the more bone mineral density you have. And so like, you know, when you have a fall, which happens a lot as we age, like hip fractures, you can go in a nursing home, and six, six weeks later, you can be dead. There's a lot of data around this. So you know, having more bone mineral density having more muscle, one, you'll be able to move better, fall better. And back from that fall better if you do fall, and good chance you'll probably prevent the fall in the first place. So all of those things are important having muscle as we age, having strength as we age having the ability to innervate these muscles better as we age is important. And two really important molecules, one of which I've worked on pretty heavily but HMB-free acid is an ingredient that protects the loss of muscle which is known as muscle protein breakdown or catabolism. So it's going to reduce the amount of muscle loss. And then Leucine is the amino acid that drives muscle protein synthesis, which is part of the other side of the equation, the anatomy is, the growth of muscle, the maintenance of muscle, the hypertrophy, and muscle. As we get older, we have more insulin resistance, and we also have more of what's known as anabolic or leucine resistance. And it just takes more and more leucine and protein to turn this on. Also, I think important to that is that androgens and, most particularly is testosterone. As we age is very important. This is very important for women to it's very underappreciated for women, you know, again, it protects bone mineral density for women. Yes, it does have an effect on libido and drive, but certainly on maintaining muscle mass. That's a very important hormone. Now your

Claudia von Boeselager 1:00:29  
energy to get through the day as well, I think; yeah, I don't appreciate that they actually need testosterone and even have that checked. And only when I did a Dutch test, which is a great hormone test in Europe; can you just order it online. My testosterone levels were pretty much zero. So when I started doing a clinical trial on HRT, including testosterone and Mike, I was like, Yes, I'm, like, I've got my energy. I don't even need high doses. And it's a low bioidentical disease in the US. So yeah, really, really important for women to look at that, too.

Shawn Wells 1:01:02  
Yeah, yeah. And for women, like you're saying, as much lower, but still, in that sense, it's almost more critical because, like, the small changes can result in massive effects for women, right? So. But anyway, this, there's a new form of Leucine that I've worked on called dye leucine. So it's two Leucine is put together in your gut. There is a unique transporter system that prefers di and tripeptides. That's two or three amino acids together. This seems counterintuitive that a single amino acid is slower than two or three amino acids in the plasma. It sounds like it doesn't make sense. But I was looking at it. I was like, Okay, well, that's true. What happens if you have two loose ends put together? It's 186% Faster, we see 60 to 80%, better muscle protein synthesis. And if you're aging, like 40 5060 years old, massive, massive difference, because of this leucine resistance, this anabolic resistance. So, you know, this is important too, as all the compounds I mentioned, you know, having that insulin resistance lowered with something like the dihydrate Berberine or the drug metformin. taking testosterone, if you can, or at least taking things that promote it, you know, maybe DHEA, even progesterone to some degree and some of these kinds of things. And then doing something about the anabolic resistance to the leucine resistance by taking leucine BCAAs EAS protein or I think, this best form of dye leucine and also taking dye leucine with HMB would be really really good. So alright, so muscle, lose die leucine HNB, free acid, brain. Seven, eight dihydroxy flav on for DMA seven, eight dyad, Roxy flav on general anti-aging, we have Ergo signing spermidine apigenin face, it's in the nicotinic acid and Nn. And also take the DI hydro Berberine for insulin resistance, blood glucose health, etc. And then maybe lastly, there are some really compelling data around the hormone melatonin, which you have to play with it. There's some uniqueness as some people don't respond well to it.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:03:55  
Yeah. What's your view on that? Well,

Shawn Wells 1:03:57  
You know, it's, I think, like find out what the kind of minimal effective dose is for you. It's highly variable. I think one of the big problems is that we have so much blue light exposure, so much junk light that we're not releasing melatonin like we used to, but melatonin naturally does decline as we age, like many hormones, so the idea of hormone replacement is ideal. And if you are not able to kind of control the amount of blue light that you're getting, especially late in the day, that melatonin can be powerful, especially if like you travel as I do. It can help reset your circadian rhythm. And I actually take pretty massive doses on my first day; I have taken like anywhere from 10 to 50 milligrams which are insanely high. But, you know, that's something that I've, you know, talked to many other people about, and it seems to like, like, kind of hit the reset button. When do you take it that would not be a dose to take consistently at all?

Claudia von Boeselager 1:05:04  
So yeah, this is anyone listening please consult your healthcare professional before trying these. Ben Greenfield was speaking at the weekend at the Health Optimization Summit. He was saying he takes a double dose of melatonin when he gets on a flight and overnight flight as well. Is that something you recommend? Is that a good anti-jetlag strategy? Okay,

Shawn Wells 1:05:24  
yeah, yeah. And again, like, you know, you can take those as low as point three milligrams? There's tablets as high as 10 milligrams, you know, if you tend to be younger, and you tend to be around less junk light in the evening, and you can try, like, the lower doses. You know, if you're aging, and you just feel like you're not getting as, as restful sleep as used to in certainly initiating that sleep. That's really where melatonin works. Then, you know, try some higher doses,

Claudia von Boeselager 1:05:59  
I'm going to ask you a question and scratch my own itch before we jump over to psychedelic supplements, which I'm very curious about, but my REM sleep, Sean, is pretty crap, no matter what. Yeah, do you recommend improving REM sleep, it's like 1% 2%. Doesn't matter how long they sleep, it's always on my indicator, and it always reads. I don't think I've gotten one slugging away, it's happy-lined? Is there a magic formulation for improving REM sleep?

Shawn Wells 1:06:26  
That's a tough one. There are some things but sleep is such a complicated subject. I would say like for me, a lot of my issues with sleep have revolved around anxiety, and that caring into my attempts to sleep that, you know, I have something to wake up for in the morning, am I going to oversleep like, you know, like, if I have to catch a plane in the morning, oh my god, what if I like to miss my plane, like I have a big test in the morning, you know, whatever it is, it's like, it's kind of like, and for me, like when the lights go off, my brain goes crazy. Just like thinking goes into overdrive because it can no longer be distracted, and now it's just going full on. So what I've found is, there's a compound honokiol that comes from Magnolia bark that's anxiolytic. And it's very powerful. It's kind of like nature's Xanax if you will. And I've found that to be very effective, and even more effective is this metabolite called di hydro honokiol beta. But you can get the honokiol pretty easily from Magnolia bark extract. Taking a few steps back from that, some kind of easy-to-get compounds you can take it, just as magnesium or relaxation theanine which comes from green tea; it's an amino acid that's relaxing in nature. And then using some of the adaptogens throughout the day can kind of normalize and restore resilience in your body and put more ease in your nervous system. So things like ashwagandha rhodiola, ginseng, things like that. Yeah, I've found those to be very effective, actually. Ashwagandha and Rhodiola are my two favorites that's what I would recommend. There's a lot of other things to do, like you know, sleeping on like a cooling pad, like a chili pad, you know, certainly blocking out blue light in the evening and like wearing blue-blocking glasses and, you know on your phone on your computer on your TV now there's always settings to reduce that yeah, the brightness and also kind of shift into the warm light. So psychosomatic anchors are, like you know, psycho meaning like the brain and somatic meaning the body feeling and then the anchors connecting it in the body. So if you have your rooms be a place where you feel unsafe, if you feel busy, if you feel attacked, if you feel like it's like maybe that's where you have a lot of your arguments, maybe that's where you you know, have your laptop and your office like you need to get all that crap out of

Claudia von Boeselager 1:09:26  
there I've created, and I've even I've had Marie Diamond on for feng shui I've even had all the mirrors out of like all the electrical Yeah,

Shawn Wells 1:09:33  
so it's important to make that like your sanctuary. Yeah. Having plenty of plants in there for that oxygen-carbon dioxide exchange, making sure that it's dark enough, like even a little bit of that LED light can mess with you, and you can try using the manta mask I certainly use. I travel it's great you Just like as in hotels, you got the light coming under the door, you got the light coming into the, the window shades you got to like the little smoke detectors and the flashing LEDs and all these things going on. And yeah, I wouldn't get zero sleep if it weren't for a mask. Yeah. So all those things help. Those would be what I'd recommend. And even like speaking of anchors, like olfactory scent is like one of the most powerful ways to anchor, and so like using like lavender spray or something on your pillow like can be a powerful way, and I use a white noise app, I've found that brown noise is the most effective. It's kind of like a deeper bass here. White Noise.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:10:49  
I prefer brown Exactly. As well as people, especially if you have ADHD tendency. It's quite good, whatever resonates with people; some people like the pink, but I find them distracting. But I'm all for the brown noise. Good.

Shawn Wells 1:11:04  
For me, Yeah, same. Okay.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:11:07  
And I just say to you what I'm testing with, I was chatting with Michael Porter of brain tap. I don't know, have you been practicing getting into the delta alpha, like the different brainwaves, and especially before bed? So that might be you have that?

Shawn Wells 1:11:22  
For sure. Yeah. Binaural Beats meditations like finding ways to kind of wind it down, certainly not being on devices that last a couple of hours before bed, and just finding ways to wind down and get your nervous system regulated. Yeah. Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:11:43  
So psychedelic supplement stacks are happening in the psychedelic supplements tech space. Sean, super, super exciting. I've had guests on also who do a lot with psychedelic therapy. It's really phenomenal, from ketamine-assisted therapy to psilocybin, etc. You know, the full range, but what's happening with the psychedelic supplements, stacks, what are you doing there in that space,

Shawn Wells 1:12:15  
I've really come up with a lot of stacks around free parry post journey, as well as micro-dosing. I'm really working on kind of nuances with different compounds, like having different stacks. I've also trademarked this idea of eco-dosing. Where, yeah, so it's like, you may have heard of like, oh, microdose, after your journey. And that's cool. But, like, what I'm doing is, let's say you're taking MDA, which is SassaFrass, which is similar to, like, it's kind of like a milder MDMA as a heart opener, and then you take ceremonial cacao and psilocybin as the journey. Like, maybe let's say it's two and a half grams of penis envy is the strain. For people that don't know, yes, it's actually called that. And then I would take that exact ratio and microdose, the whole ratio of the MDA, the ceremonial cacao, the psilocybin in that strain, prepared by the same person that prepared those compounds for you to be going through your journey. And so that would be microdose in the next eight weeks following to, again, psychosomatic anchors to hearken the body back to what it experienced. Also, like if I'm using sage or agua de Florida, or things like that, during the journey, as the sense that you might spray or use, I would use that when I microdose. Also, if you're listening to a playlist while you're going through your journey, or there in particular, there's a song that when you have an epiphany, that really is the song that's connected to that playing with that playlist, while you're micro-dosing so that I can like to keep myself neuroplastic so that I can keep the default mode network turned down lower, which is the ego. These two things, the neuroplasticity, the BDNF being elevated, and the default mode network is lowered, allow for greater change to take place. And so it's important after you have your facilitated experience, to work on integration, to work on the changes is not just entertainment, like an entertaining experience, but you need something that's long-lasting, And so you need to put those into practice, you need to have accountability, you need to go back to those feelings. revisit those feelings. Remember your truth. Remember your authenticity, your integrity. So that's where all that comes in; then I have these stacks that you take to keep yourself in these places with supplements. But then my echo dosing, is that a micro-dosing of those stacks during the journey? So this is the Echo is like, I'm going back and forth with macro and micro to, like, have the body be aware. Beautiful. Yes. So it's something I've worked on and it's really, really effective. And I have a trademark too. So it's pretty cool. But regarding the neuroplasticity elements, I've already talked about the seven, eight, and dihydroxy llevan. And for DMA seven, eight dihydroxy flav on lion's mane is decent; you could add that and on top of those others if you wanted; I do like using the nm n and the nicotinic acid. Really powerful for getting the mitochondria back functioning, especially when you're talking about things that are like MDMA that have a little bit of neurotoxicity, potentially, you know, but these are compounds that really the data shows that, like, you know,, if you use once a month, for three straight months, people like never needed to have psychotherapy, again, never needed to have SSRIs. Again, and this is like when I look at these numbers, and a number of these studies from maps from Johns Hopkins from Stanford, Northwestern, I mean, like very, very good universities. We're seeing 50 to 80% cure rates, depending on the length of time and what the psychedelic intervention was. So I mean, literally no longer being on psychotherapy or medic medical intervention of any kind, like, kind of mind-blowing. So even if there is like a touch of, you know, this, quote, unquote, toxicity, and I think that's okay, like, it is minor. And again, you can, you know, take some of these supplements to protect yourself, but also, like, if you do bigger experiences on plant medicines, you know, think of like Ayahuasca or a large dose of psilocybin, you know, you may have like a very depleted body, and that's where it kind of getting the mitochondria ramped back up is important and doing really the whole supplement stack. I mentioned before all these anti-aging things revolve around the mitochondria and resilience; I do find the adaptogens are potent, so potentially, these anxiolytics are going in. So pre-journey, I like doing the anxiolytics and adaptogens. Because a lot of times, people are anxious about coming into these journeys. What I find is that we've been told like, oh, like, you know, you're a big guy. So you need five grams, and she's a smaller girl. So she needs 2.5 grams has nothing to do with anything. It has to do with the nervous system. And if you're a more sympathetic nervous system, you are the larger doses, you'll need to overpower that nervous system. So if you're hyper vigilant, if you're in your ultra sympathetic nervous system state, you can't lean into these substances and experience them as well because you have cortisol, epinephrine, and norepinephrine floating around. And it's just like, you know, if I gave you, you know, six shots of tequila, you might be like, pretty well buzzing, but then like, someone falls and, you know, splits their head, and there's blood everywhere. You're gonna be like boom, I'm excited. You've turned it back on. You're sober as hell like you're ready to roll like; where's the ambulance? Let's go

Claudia von Boeselager 1:19:25  
pretty good in an emergency. Right, like so.

Shawn Wells 1:19:30  
That's, that's the nervous system coming back online. And I've heard it so many times when people are in journeys, they're like, it comes in waves. That waves thing is the nervous system going online, back offline, online, back offline, going sympathetic, and going right back to relax to parasympathetic. That's one of the reasons you might use a heart opener, what's called a heart opener, before a journey, MDA, or MDMA, or you might do breath work. or intention setting or these trauma release exercises Tre. There are a lot of different things you can do to get parasympathetic and relax more. But most importantly, you need to be safe in that environment you need to trust your facilitators. And look safe is to you don't like over rationalized don't like, over cerebral eyes, there could be a guy who's the most amazing guy in the world, who has worked with 100 people who are high integrity, beautiful soul got tonnes of people to make amazing changes. And just like you're like, this is definitely the guy; this is the one I want to work with. But if you're coming from a background of sexual abuse, and you had a male abuser, you know, that could be like the wrong thing at this point, not always, maybe just right now. So you just have to feel into your intuition and say, like, what makes me feel safe, so that I can lean in. And I can get a lot out of this experience. Because I'll be very honest, what can happen is when that default, the default mode network is turned off, and you're highly neuroplastic. And you're cracked open emotionally, and your operating system is exposed. And it's great, you can upgrade that operating system in a way that you can never do psychotherapy or just rationalization or reading or any of that stuff like this is like the highest hack there is. But you can also downgrade your operating system and seal in trauma in a way that you didn't think was possible. Because you are sensing and feeling things on a much deeper level, and you're cracked open. So this is where I don't like the idea of things like MDMA or mushrooms used at parties used at raves. These are unsafe environments, very unpredictable environments. You may have beautiful experiences on them, but you're really rolling the dice. And I don't like that idea at all. I like facilitated experiences, I like keeping those substances kind of held in high regard. Like they're very, very powerful substances and need to be treated like that. I mean, it's like having a loaded gun or something, you know, it's like you treat a gun with respect like if you're gonna like have one in your hand, you treat it with respect because it can. It has a lot of power. And so and so to these substances, they have a lot of power, as they can really change your life in one way or another. So yeah, for me, overall, it's been very, very powerful in me making huge leaps forward. So I'm very blessed and thankful. But I've done a lot of work and understanding them. I have great facilitators. Actually, one plug for my facilitators that they no longer facilitate but now they train people to abuse is called the Condor approached by Todd and Cole Witty. And this is like a workbook that they have on Amazon. And so they're training all these facilitators now they kind of went the illegal and safe route, but they've, they've been facilitating for 20 years. And they're just taught me so much about safety in the process. And you know, they'll do like a two-plus hour intake before they even think about bringing someone on, like in a journey, you know, so you need to make sure you're working with the right people. I think that's the most important thing, even before the supplements, but I can send you a full deck on all myself. My psychedelic supplements, science and stacks, and all the things that you could you can list in your liner notes and all that kind of stuff.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:24:09  
We'll put them in the show notes as well. I know it's such an interesting space. So needed; there's so much trauma out there. And as you said, as well, it can be such a beautiful experience for so many to heal that trauma in such a much shorter space of time that 1015 to 20 years of therapy doesn't even get close to. And then that sort of spiritual awakening that comes with it as well. That sense of connectedness and proximity and then empowerment as well. So please do, and how do you spell it, Tod? What was the

Shawn Wells 1:24:42  
TA and call with a TA H and call K O L E and then with W H I T T Y, and it's called the Condor approach, and actually, you know, I was talking about those Peruvian animals. So this is like that big picture. Getting in your feminine healing energy. Condor energies.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:25:06  
Yeah. For men and women alike. I mean, yeah, I came from investment banking, which is very male-dominated to tech startups, right? To have to rediscover this feminine energy, which I'm hopefully getting better at. So, bit by bit. Shawn, if you could live to be 150 years old, in excellent health, how would you spend it? What would you do with your life?

Shawn Wells 1:25:30  
I love just experiencing new things. I love staying very childlike. I do remember this verse when I was a kid in the Bible that was about, like, Come to me as a child. And I like it's like, kind of like, stayed in my brain all these years of like, there's great importance to staying playful, staying creative. Staying youthful, staying innocent. Thank curious, yeah, and exploring, like, and I think it's so powerful. I actually had this thought it's funny, you just bring up that word. Because I thought, like, what precedes love, and is more important, like we talked about, love is the most universal and important energy. And then curiosity is because you can't have love without curiosity. You can't fall in love with things unless you're curious to like, if I'm curious to know about you, to learn about you, to hear what you have to say, like, you have a different opinion, I can understand you through curiosity first, then I can learn to love you

Claudia von Boeselager 1:26:37  
like that I do. The precursor to love is curiosity. That's powerful. So you will stay curious.

Shawn Wells 1:26:44  
Thank curiously, I just want to keep traveling, keep exploring, like meeting new cultures, like, you know, people have very different walks of life are now in my life. Like, I have a very, very eclectic friend group. And I don't know, I take pride in that, like, you know, there's like the diversity of your microbiome shows how resilient you are. Yeah, I think the diversity of your friend group shows how resilient you are, too, because I have a, I think, a broader mind, and I'm going to be more resilient because I have, you know, gay, straight Muslim, Christian, you know, tall, short, black white people from every country. I have like children that are close friends and dogs and cats and old people and you know, people in nursing homes and you know, handicapped people on these, like all

Claudia von Boeselager 1:27:44  
all my friends, you're definitely living the right lifestyle. One of them had some

Shawn Wells 1:27:52  
Well, I say you said tribe too. That's actually like my, in the energy formula, my book. That's the way I have, so, like, energy is an acronym, and it's experiment nutrition, exercise routines, growth, and your tribe as to why. So, yeah, the whole biohacking book is super cool. So yeah, if any new people want to check it out, it's energy, formula.com. Hardcover, softcover, audible ebook minicab, and a bunch of extras if you go to energy formula.com. But you can get it on Amazon too.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:28:31  
Perfect. We'll link it in the show notes. And I'm definitely going to check it out. And yeah, I think it's a tribe. I think as you grow as a person, we're talking about the hero's journey. You kind of noticed shifts in life, you know, when you may be at school, it's like, Oh, these are the people who want to fit in with, and then at some point, you realize, actually, I don't even care what other people think I just am happy with myself. And, like, let me find the people that resonate with me and spend more time with them. And that's what makes this growth journey so interesting, and other people get to meet so, including yourself, Shawn. So thank you. Yeah, what excites you most about the future of health Well, being, and longevity over the coming years and beyond?

Shawn Wells 1:29:10  
I think the empowerment that's taking place, you know, people are taking power back, people are becoming responsible, there's less of this authoritarian model. It's definitely more of a collaborative model. I think there are tools that, you know, while they may seem frightening to some, like could be very empowering. You know, having spent a lot of time in healthcare myself, I've seen like the gross mismanagement and really bad practices in healthcare that I could do a whole show on that. That, you know, AI could solve, you know, as that robotics could solve now, we still need the human touch, but there could be a lot of efficiencies that are brought through some of these tools. If they're used correctly, they