Jennifer Fugo 0:00
The current research does show that by unnecessarily eliminating foods, you can develop an actual IGE allergy to those foods. We should be more cautious about the foods that we eliminate, especially when there are healthy whole foods.

Claudia von Boeselager 0:20
Are you ready to boost your longevity and unlock peak performance? Welcome to The Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast. I'm your host, Claudia von Boeselager, longevity and peak performance coach. Each week, we'll explore groundbreaking science, unravel longevity secrets, share strategies to grow younger and stay up to date with world-class health and peak performance pioneers. Everything you need to live longer, live better, and reach your fullest potential, ready to defy aging, optimize health, and promote peak performance. Visit llinsider.com for more.

My guest today is Jennifer Fugo, a clinical nutritionist empowering adults who have been failed by conventional medicine to be chronic skin and unending gut challenges, which many of us will know about. She has experience working with conditions such as eczema, psoriasis, and dandruff hives, with clientele ranging from regular folks to celebrities, professional athletes, and many more. Jennifer also founded her own line of skincare and supplements specifically for people struggling with these chronic skin conditions. Jennifer holds a master's degree in Human Nutrition from the University of Bridgeport and is a licensed dietitian, nutritionist, and certified nutrition specialist. Jennifer is the host of the Healthy Skin Show podcast with over 1 million downloads. Jennifer, it is such a pleasure to welcome you to the Longevity and Lifestyle podcast today.

Jennifer Fugo 1:53
Thank you for having me, Claudia. I'm excited to be here.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:55
Yeah, me too. And so for those listening, maybe I'll just mention how we met. So Jennifer and I met at an evening event at a conference we were at in February. And I think there was like a slight drizzle. happening. I think you're waiting for the Uber with Dr. Julian Brighton with us as well as we were chatting. We're even dancing there at some stage. Anyway, it was quite an exceptional experience. There was a cacao ceremony. There was a DJ. So we had a very fun meeting and a rather late hour that brought us together on the podcast now. So such a pleasure we could make it happen in a firm.

Jennifer Fugo 2:33
Absolutely. And I know Dr. Brighton was like you too, should know one another. Very true, very true. It's always fun to be connected through friends and colleagues and whatnot. You know, thank you, I appreciate the invitation to come because I know that you have such a you're such great podcast and I know that your listeners are so engaged in learning because they're also applying it to their own lives.

Claudia von Boeselager 3:02
So I'm excited to talk today and share your knowledge. And I'd love to start Jennifer with your journey because you didn't just start as a practitioner and very sort of logical but you actually came from a patient perspective, right? And so for many people listening, whether they are practitioners or patients themselves or both. Can you share a little bit about your journey and the story that brought you to do what you're doing today?

Jennifer Fugo 3:23
My journey to working on chronic skin issues really is very personal, as you said; I actually saw my father. I should mention this because I find most clients find this relevant, and my dad was a doctor and an eye surgeon. So I grew up in a household full of being given antibiotics as a kid every time I got a cold or flu or something like that. And so I had been around medicine a whole lot my entire life. We actually had our own medical practice here in the United States. And I honestly became very interested in nutrition because I did not want to go into medicine. I just saw the long, grueling hours my dad was going through and I just didn't wasn't into doing dissections and all that stuff. It just wasn't my thing. And I got into nutrition and in the process of starting my master's degree, I began to break out into what's called dyshidrotic eczema. So, for somebody who is not familiar with that particular type of eczema, it usually impacts the palms of your hands and the bottom of your feet. For me, it only impacts the palms and my hands. And what happens is it's kind of a very unique presentation of eczema and that you develop what look like I thought they were like these like little clear water beads under my skin at first and they became very itchy when the skin would flare up very red. Eventually, it started oozing it got crusty it was like super gross. And then it would dry out, calm down, and then This process would start again. And so obviously I, the first person I went through with my dad, and I'm like, What the heck is this? What's going on? This is awful. And he explained to me that it was eczema and, you know, said, look, here's some steroid cream you can use, but just be very cautious with how much you use, which I'm now in my later years and having worked with so many people who have had such huge exposure to steroids and what those steroids can potentially do. I'm really grateful for that warning, because I was really, really judicious with how much I used how often I used it. And fortunately, I didn't have any side effects from using that medication. But eventually, after seeing dermatologists who were just like, sorry, you're just gonna have to learn to live with it. One told me, and you have a daughter? Yes, Claudia who does? Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager 5:47
Yeah.

Jennifer Fugo 5:48
So you've got kids, you've got a home, you've got a life. Can you imagine smearing the palms of your hands with Vaseline? Because that's what the dermatologist told me to do. And I really liked it when

Claudia von Boeselager 5:59
the door then lose the ability to know.

Jennifer Fugo 6:03
And I have cats. I'm like, Do you know how much cat hair I would have stuck to me? I'd have Vaseline over my clothes. This is like an utterly impractical suggestion she's like, but that's how you keep your hands from drying out. I was like, Okay, I don't think this is gonna work. So I started doing a lot of research, I was really depressed for a very, quite a while because when you can't touch things, you have to wear gloves all the time, when you've got, I mean, literally every single spot that I've been, my fingers would crack open and break, especially in the winter time where we actually do have like, like in the UK, we have cold winters where I live, and my skin would just become so fragile, it would crack open break, I couldn't touch water. So I'm wearing gloves all the time. And I'm like, no one is gonna want to work with me. I look, I don't look like a good person. I mean, people wouldn't even shake my hands because they looked infected all the time. So I got to this place where I thought, How am I even going to do this, and I almost was actually going to quit my master's program, my husband was like, stop, take a step back. Think about this if you the current you were a client, what would you do? How could you try to help them and obviously your game for any things? So you're a great guinea pig. And what I did, then I honestly didn't know if it was going to work, it took almost a year to get the flares to stop. In the process, my nails had also gotten really messed up. Because when you have inflammation in the hands specifically in the fingers, it's not uncommon with skin conditions to then see, like different pitting and lines and all sorts of issues develop with the nails, because it's really a sign of inflammation. So my nails have gotten quite off. They just were not nice-looking at all. And that obviously took longer to grow out. But I was able to finally get the rashes to stop. Now, if you were to say, what did you do? Because it's always a question I get, what did you do? And I'm like, Okay, first of all, what I knew in, like 2016 is so minute compared to what I know today; I would not do what I did because I was throwing everything added; I don't know what worked. And to be entirely honest with you. There. What I have learned at this point in time is that there is a huge amount of factors that impact not only eczema but chronic skin problems in general. And the skin unfortunately tends to be one of the later things are the last things per se to clean up or clear up. It's not going to it's not going to fix I know we want these magical solutions. And I can really deeply appreciate that. As a person who has struggled with acne in the past, I've had, you know, obviously I've had this issue with my hands. I've had hydrogenated suppurativa and my armpits, I understand wanting these skin issues to stop, like a full stop, what do I need to do? But if you're really serious about asking that question and wanting it to stop, you have two choices. One is some very serious potent medications that I listen to, I'm not judgmental about whether you choose medication or not. There's a time and a place, and no one can truly understand anyone's individual suffering because none of us live in that person's shoes. So I very much appreciate the medication that is present, and at least it's an option if it's the best fit for you. But to go the more natural route there's no I do not at this point in time know of any single herb nutrient, substance peptide, whatever that is magically going to make your skin stop flaring up or heal or whatever within I don't know, a day a week, two weeks like It doesn't generally work that way. Unfortunately, it is a slower process because all of these other systems have to be essentially filled back up and rebalanced, so that the skin which is not as high of a priority on our Oregon totem pole, can actually rebuild correctly from the inside out, it doesn't heal from the outside in, it's really from the inside out because that's where the cells are formed in our body. So that was my big learning lesson of how I became I mean, I've, I have had eczema again. And the second time I had eczema, again, was not my hands. I found out I had gotten an infection and took antibiotics because, at that point, it was quite significantly bad, so I made the decision to do that. And it eczema did clear up the second time, and it has not returned. So I'm not saying it's all a gut problem. But you know, I'm sure you have a lot of questions for me today. So we can go in many different directions. But I just, I just hope that if somebody is listening to this and thinking, it's just a skin problem, what else can I put on my skin, there are some topical things that you can do, depending on what you have. But it's also an insight, there's a significant inside piece that is more so than just doing liver detox or healing your leaky gut or whatever. It's it is more extensive than that, I guess, fortunately, and unfortunately. So I like to give a realistic picture.

Claudia von Boeselager 11:23
Yeah, no, I love that as well. I think it's so important. I mean, our skin is our largest organ, we forget that and the amount of also chemicals we do in terms of the creams, we're putting on the Sun creams. I mean, it's so important to be reading labels, and what we're exposing even a lot of the makeup products, unfortunately, are all really, really top toxic that we're ingesting each day. So, I guess a few questions are just off the back of that. And thank you for sharing the story. The correlation with skin and gut health, I'd love to hear your view on that. And also, can you just share with people so they understand around steroids and the impact of steroids because, you know, also speaking from personal experience, if I had something to your dermatologist, oh, here's a steroid cream, here's a steroid cream. I mean, it's automatic almost. And so just to help people understand the impact of that and why it should be taken in low doses and very, very cautiously.

Jennifer Fugo 12:16
First of all, these are huge topics. Sorry,

Claudia von Boeselager 12:19
exactly. I thought.

Jennifer Fugo 12:22
They're great, though. They're great questions. So I think, first of all, within with a gut, I think the way we have to look at this is because most people say the gut is How is that connected to my skin? They're very distant organ systems. What's the connection? I think the fundamental thing that I appreciate in this process of interviewing guests on the Healthy Skin show reading research and being in like in clinical practice is that where inflammation starts may not be where it actually ends up and where we visualise or experience it. And I think most people who are interested in alternative health know that if they're struggling with autoimmunity, it seems like that hasn't quite trickled down to many other conditions. Or at least that knowledge. So I'll give you an example. There are these chemical messengers in your body that your body produces. They're not inherently bad, and they are called cytokines. cytokines are This was actually the analogy shared on my podcast by Dr. Heather's wiki. So, I just want to make sure to give her the credit where credit is due because it's a great analogy. She likened cytokines to emails. And it's if you imagine that you have something going on in your gut, say you ingested some sort of, we'll just say worst case scenario, you got a really bad parasite, but it could also be bacteria, could be H pylori, it could be any number of other things, fungal overgrowth, etc. Your immune system sees that as like, I need help. So it starts sending out these cytokines or emails out into the ether to try to recruit help into the gut where the problem is, the issue here is that the cytokines end up on your skin. And so the issue so a lot of times when people are like, I don't understand, you're saying I have fungal overgrowth do I have must have a fungal infection on my skin? And I said, No, the fungal overgrowth is internal. What's going on in the skin? It's possible. You could have a fungal rash, where there are actual fungal organisms, but it's also possible to not have some sort of significant enough infection on the skin. It's just the inflammation internally is showing up there, contributing to these rash presentations. It's inflammation. It's your body telling you there's an inflammatory process going on. So, for anybody who thinks this sounds like a lot of hogwash, I'll share this little tidbit of a story. Last year, I get I got this email from a drug company in the US they were doing a round of funding for a psoriasis medication that they were working on. I forget which phase I think it was like a phase two or phase three trial. And in the email, so they're trying to get you know, people, they're like saying, Oh, look how great this il 17 blocker is, this is what it does. So, il 17 is a particular type of cytokine. And a lot of the biologic drugs for psoriasis specifically, target il 17, or il 23. And so, I think this was for an oral medication. And they explicitly stated in the email that il 17 is generated by some sort of pathogen or like an organism that shouldn't be in the GI tract generates this sort of inflammatory messenger to be produced in excess quantities. It's like, buried in the middle of the the atom, like, how come everybody says that this is this, I'm just like, you know, this is this seems like a reach what you're saying. I'm like if the drug companies know this, I'm not saying that every problem. Every skin issue is inherently a gut issue. But I do think it's worthwhile to consider it as a component. Because you can also have no gut issues. And this is important, I think, for clinicians to hear you can have the perfect poop. Every day, you're like, I poop three times a day. It's perfect. It's a lovely snake, you know, I have no gas, I have no bloating, I've no belching no GI dysfunction at all. I digest my food well. And you could still have something going on in the gut. And that shows up on your skin. And I don't know why that is. i In all honesty, we have many cases in our practice where they were like, I don't think I have a gut problem. I don't know if it's worthwhile to do a stool test. And it was like can you just humour me? And here they come back with parasites and all sorts of stuff, and why it doesn't impact their GI tract? I have no clue. I wish I knew that would be amazing. I have super gums that it does, it just shows up on their skin. So it's a reminder that where the inflammatory process starts, where the actual triggers are, might not be where our like check engine lights show up on our body, right? Yes, there are these distinct connections. It can happen because of gut dysfunction. So how we digest and absorb food, the gut motility, if you have gas bloating, if you're getting like gi pain of any sort, if you're not, oh my gosh, I really I'm sure your folks know this, but please, you should be pooping at least once a day. If not three times a day, please don't go a bit longer than a day without having a bowel movement and it should be well-formed it should be soft enough that at least it's easy to feel like you're fully voided and to exit your lovely intestinal tract. Constipation is a huge problem apparently now in the United States we have a laxative shortage from what I'm hearing online. So please, constipation is a big problem. And that can you're sitting in waste products and that can it can contribute to those inflammatory things not just from the organisms themselves but also what they produce like Lippo polysaccharides also LP you know, also known as LPs, etc. Those things sit in your system longer than they should causing having more time essentially causes a problem.

Claudia von Boeselager 18:53
Yeah, and Jennifer, just a quick point on that just to share with people. I mean, some things that I find really helpful because I have a tendency to constipation, for example, if I don't do something about it, but I find water in the morning, especially with fresh lemon gets the whole digestive tract going. Exercise is really fundamental getting that movement in for some people in the morning is the best way as well and then fiber people forget about fiber and they're just focusing like I only eat salads all day I'm like you know that's great, and there is some fiber in that but like trying to add stuff so I just put you know flaxseed meal flaxseed for example, my morning smoothie and I know I'm getting my fiber for the day and then anything else is a plus. So, just for people wondering, what do I do if this is an issue? Yes, these are some Yeah, little tips. Yeah. And

Jennifer Fugo 19:38
there's also good research on Kiwis. So you could have, I think, two Kiwis a day. I don't know if I would do to keep these a day, but one Kiwi a day could be fine, maybe two kiwis, but they do show that Kiwis can be helpful, and then also a little bit of aloe juice, not aloe vera gel that you would put on your skin but actual aloe leaf juice. Yeah. Then you should look for one that is not sweetened, and it doesn't have a whole lot of extra ingredients in it. But just be careful with aloe juice because it's very potent. It's not something you drink throughout the day, it's like you find the point where you're going to the bathroom and beyond that, or else you will get cleaned out, and it will not be great. It's

Claudia von Boeselager 20:19
like the MCT oil as well. Yeah, my father takes the aloe juice as well. And I think, what do you think of the episode of vinegar, actually, just on that point,

Jennifer Fugo 20:27
I think it could be helpful for some. It just depends if somebody has gastritis or finds that they don't feel well. Also, someone with histamine intolerance is not may not tolerate doing that. So I just think it depends on the case. But I also, too, in the wintertime and other like it could also be another great helpful tip. If, like, I do like having a little bit of raw honey. So I'll make a tea with a tea like a teaspoon, do a tablespoon, usually splash at this point of apple cider vinegar, and just a little teaspoon of some honey and it's just really nice and soothing for the throat. But I also find to it can be nice and helpful for the GI tract as

Claudia von Boeselager 21:08
well. Yeah. Okay. Very, very cool. So, thank you for expanding on that as well. So I think because everyone knows what the idea is.

Jennifer Fugo 21:15
I will just finish up this point and saying that we have to be cognizant of the fact that you can have microbiome dysbiosis or imbalances anywhere throughout the GI tract It can include the stomach like H Pylori, I actually do find I know it's controversial and functional medicine of whether we deal with h pylori or not deal with it. Yeah, it can, right, and you know, it can cause problems, and sometimes they are silent problems. You can also have it and have no classical symptoms of having it. But H. pylori is an issue. You can have SIBO which is small intestine, fungal overgrowth, or SIBO, small intestine bacterial overgrowth. You can also have LIFO, large intestine, fungal overgrowth, and limbo, large intestine bacterial overgrowth, you can also have significant undergrowth of the colon as well. And those, I think most people assume because they've had like me, so I am the classic example. My dad, like I said, Dad was a doctor who gave me antibiotics for pretty much everything. So my god is more on the depleted side. It is a constant battle to try to improve it. It has been years and years. It is what it is. But you can't be there. I have had clients who have been on tonnes of antibiotics and somehow still have so much overgrowth. So you cannot assume that simply because you had a lot of antibiotic exposure, that that means you're depleted, I think we that's where tests don't guess is really important. Because how you approach undergrowth is very different from overgrowth. And so, like, for example, if you wanted to deal with an overgrowth scenario because you have bad back, we'll just call, quote-unquote, bad bacteria in the GI tract, or dysbiotic, or pathogenic, whatever, those types of unfriendly bugs. If your gut microbiome is depleted, you will continue to deplete it by taking antimicrobial herbs and other things of that nature. So you do you need to replete before you can start to deal with it. So it does really matter. And I think that's something that we'd like to go online and DIY some of these solutions, not realizing that we could actually do more damage and throw the gut into a further state of dysbiosis. As a result of that, so this is a

Claudia von Boeselager 23:37
really important point, I really liked that, Jennifer, I hadn't heard that before as well, but actually to think about replenishing and supporting it before you're actually treating the other one so that the whole balance doesn't completely go off. So

Jennifer Fugo 23:48
right. If you're in an overgrowth scenario, where you just have like way too much bacteria, then that's a different story. We can go and start chipping away at things. But I think we have to be cautious. And sometimes we have this on this, I will say a misunderstand that because something is natural, it can cause no harm. And that is not inherently true. There are plenty of herbs that can have side effects and can cause harm. So I just, again, it's about being honest and straightforward. So that if someone is doing this themselves, because maybe they can't afford to work with a practitioner, because they're just in that place where they're like, I want to try and see if I can figure it out. That's cool. But you do have to realize there are guardrails to some of this, and you do have to be cautious of what you take. So, that being said, in regards to steroids, I just want to preface this by saying I'm not a doctor, a medical professional. So obviously, if you're taking steroids right now, don't just stop them cold turkey go have a conversation with your provider about your concerns. But there is something called Topical Steroid Withdrawal, also known as T SW. And it's true. We are trying the UK. You guys are ahead of us. On this front. You're I think it's the British Association of Dermatology. There's some sort of grouping of dermatologists that have finally recognized Topical Steroid Withdrawal syndrome as an actual problem, whereas in the US, we're still struggling to make that happen. But what basically happens is that it doesn't matter how you are exposed to the steroids, whether it's through a nasal inhaler, whether you're taking prednisone pills, whether you get have to get like, you're at the hospital, and they have to give it give you like an IV drip, or you're unfortunately, slathering yourself with topical steroids. It is important also to clarify that topical steroids are not all the same potency; some, like hydrocortisone, are, I think, one of the lower doses, whereas I think clickbait is all one of the higher ones. So, just be aware that potency does matter. But all of this impacts your cortisol because hydrocortisone is manmade cortisol. And so I'm sure many of you listeners know there's a feedback loop within the HPA axis. And so when you start adding in more cortisol, there's more coming into the system, your HPA axis is like, hey, adrenals, you can like calm it down, you don't have to make as much. And with time, the adrenal output of cortisol drops. Now, the period of time that this happens, we don't know there is not enough research to show that. And if you're just using, like, say, a topical steroid, maybe a couple times a week, I don't know that, like, I just want to be very cautious here. Because you have some folks that are in this camp that are like steroids are the devil you, no one should use these. And look, they do have a time and a place, and they can save somebody's life. I think we just need more knowledge about how to use them safely. So basically, what happens in DSW is that the steroids don't work as well. And you have to continue increasing potency and the amount that you're applying and probably applying it more often. And as a result, with time, your body becomes dependent on, in this instance, the creams. And so when you try to stop them, the skin in general flares up. So it's not just let's just pretend like maybe you have rashes on your shoulders and your neck, but you stop the creams, and then you end up with a full body rash. There are also other very strange symptoms that go along with this, like swollen lymph nodes, you can't sleep at night, and unfortunately, sometimes your hair can start to fall out. I mean, this is literally a devastating situation that can last for some individuals for years. So, if this sounds like something you're going through, there is a website you can look at called sand.org. So I T sa n.org. They're a great organization that advocates for people, and they have tonnes of resources there. It's not something to take lightly. It's not like Yeah, I know what's wrong. It could be like, great, I understand partly what's happening to me, but it is a devastating situation that is unfortunately drug-induced. So please be careful. And also, please be careful assuming that you have it number one, and part of the reason I say that is that sometimes a severe skin infection can look like T SW. So it's really important to rule that out, get treated for that if you do have a severe skin infection, and then determine whether you actually have it or not, because there are some people who just say, Oh, I have this, this situation, this T SW thing going on. And in reality, they've actually had a really, really bad skin infection that was left untreated. So yes, steroids unfortunately, can have an unintended consequence that can take years to rebalance the HPA axis and can cause some really unpleasant, if not devastating. Side

Claudia von Boeselager 28:57
effects. Yeah. It's not to be taken lightly. I do agree there is a time and a place for certain things. But I firmly believe in like looking at the root cause, you know, what is triggering that we talked about gut health? You know, have you totally analyzed your health? If you're having skin health issues, you know, is it in a good form? I'd actually want to ask you also about the test as well. And how often do you recommend testing gut health? Is there a particular test you find particularly useful versus other ones? Can you share some information on that for people who be thinking about going down that route?

Jennifer Fugo 29:32
I would say that if you're being marketed a test on Instagram or Facebook, don't buy it. I would also say I can't speak for worldwide how these tests are marketed and how they're allowed to be marketed in the United States. No clinical lab is allowed to be marketed by Facebook ads, and on Google so you're not going to see an ad ever, and it's something that either you're going to buy through a testing way website, like not the company's website, you can't ever buy it directly through the company. So, for example, I do use the GI map in my practice, and I do like it, but you can't buy it at Diet Diagnostics Solutions is lab unless you're a practitioner. You cannot get that lab through them; you have to go through these third-party testing websites where they have a whole panel of bloodwork and hormone panels and all these different things. And that's all they do is just lab tests. So that's one way, at least in the US, if you're in the United States, to know that there's a red flag. And I would just also caution you I recognize that we develop a lot of trust with the people whose email lists we're on and who we follow. But if the person is not a clinician, and they don't have a practice if they're selling you a stool test, I can tell you for a fact, that it's not a clinical lab. And there's a big difference between clinical labs like a GI map has clinical implications, it means we can build protocols off of it. It can be used to help dot put by a doctor diagnose certain things, something like these other tests that they're like, here's a 52-page report on all the foods you should eat and avoid. And here's the makeup of your microbiome that tells you nothing. It's all cute. But it's a lot of money spent on nothing. And so I, you know, especially if you're not well, I think that's where it becomes more challenging because you want to put your money toward what's actually going to help you get better. So in the UK, invivo has good testing. Also, health path is another option as well. There's also the GI 360. I don't remember which lab makes that test and there's the GI effects that come from Genova all have pros and cons. Yeah, all have pros and cons. I don't actually like the fact that the GI effects from Genova require you to pay extra money to get the H. Pylori add on and they just tell you whether it's positive or negative. The thing is, I want to know what the number is. Did you find any no stool test is perfect. There are three areas on a stool test where they might not be as accurate as you would assume they are. So that would be H. Pylori, fungal organisms, and parasites. They don't do such a great job. Unfortunately, they can give us an idea. And this is sometimes why it's beneficial to have somebody else who knows how to like dig through your case history and look at your symptoms and really ask questions that you didn't even think were relevant, you know, to your case, but if you're doing it yourself, these are, you can have fungal overgrowth and show no Candida no other fungal organisms on a stool test. The reason is that fungal organisms live in the small intestine. This is a large intestine test. So, in order for them to even show up and go far enough downgrades, anything is even picked up. You have to have a significant overgrowth in the small intestine. So if you're high on a large intestine test, you got a lot you you have a lot of fungus partying in your GI tract. If you have a normal or within limits, a normal limit amount of fungus shows up on a stool test. You have fungal overgrowth. If you have none, it does not mean no. And so that's where this gets confusing because some practitioners don't know that, especially with skin problems. And they don't also, if you have had a lot of exposure to steroids, which you just talked about, that can also impact how much fungal overgrowth could be present because steroids depress your immune system's ability to keep fungal organisms in check. If you're also the type of person who had a lot of antibiotics and has a more depleted gut again, you're probably a ripe candidate. Unfortunately, for fungal overgrowth or if you drank a lot of alcohol and did a lot of partying or you lived in a fungally moldy environment, which by the way, in the UK, I feel like you guys need way more education on mold. I feel like there's so much mold in the UK and

Claudia von Boeselager 34:11
I know I mean, in I was just talking to a friend the other day in Germany, it actually says in rental contracts that if there's black mould tenants are allowed to reduce the rent until it's dealt with and it's dealt with properly. It's like an expert comes in and removes it. If it's a friend living in Spain, they had a flood. And I was talking about this in the UK. It's actually really funny. They'll just paint over it. Yes, like, Oh, it's fine, it looks white again, you know, and they don't actually treat and deal with it. And we know it has such an implication. When we inhale those spores, it stays in our system and in ourselves and affects our cognitive health, etc. So

Jennifer Fugo 34:44
100% and impacts your microbiome because you're in a lab environment, and that sets the stage for a more fungally overgrowth scenario within the GI tract. Aside from all of these other implications of the mycotoxins and whatnot, a client recently found mold under the rug in her car. Oh, wow. So, you know, you can find it in your car, a lot of institutional buildings like hospitals, nursing homes, libraries, university dormitories, a lot of old buildings. And it even could be a new building because sometimes, with construction materials, they leave things on exposed, and the wood gets wet and whatnot. But just be aware of that, that that is a factor here

Claudia von Boeselager 35:30
and to detox those as well. Right. I mean, I think so on, and cold exposure is really helpful just to, you know, get people in the way, and then there are obviously supplements and things people can take, right? Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Fugo 35:40
And I just want to say is one last point to stool testing. Again, parasites don't do such a good job. If they're like, sometimes you'll see protozoa, which are the single-celled organisms, but sometimes you won't, and you may see you. I have never seen a worm, though. I know two clinicians that I've talked to saw worms show up on a GI map once. So it's very infrequent, but it doesn't mean that they don't happen. I will just give a little bit of a tidbit for anybody who's thinking about going on certain biologic drugs if like, say you're on for example, the generic name is to pill a Mab. But it's known, it's marketed as dupixent. I have found clinically that if someone is on diligent, and it's not controlling and suppressing the rashes sufficiently, and you're still having to use steroids or takrut, Lemus or Protopic or whatever, to help control things, it's worthwhile to check if you have a Hellmouth infection, so helminths our worms because it is contraindicated that and add Bree, I don't know if add Bri is available in the UK and I believe do Pixon is, but just keep that in mind, it could be a sign that there's actually something underneath the surface that shouldn't be there. It's contraindicated for use with Hellmouth infections because it suppresses il 13. Il 13 helps us expel worms. So, again, all of these little details really, really matter. But still testing, I would say, at least if the way that we work was still testing in my practice. Usually, we don't do stool testing all that frequently.

Claudia von Boeselager 37:09
But what's the frequency? Jennifer, when it does, it is like once a year, once every two years.

Jennifer Fugo 37:13
In our practice, if we are actively doing protocols, it's somewhere between every six to like nine months. So we're not doing one protocol. Let's do a new stool test that, in my opinion, is a waste of people's money because there should be enough on that stool test to help you understand what needs to be done over a series of several months. I will also say that if you have really significant fungal overgrowth or you had a really significant mold exposure, one round for like a month of antifungal herbs is not going to fix you.

Claudia von Boeselager 37:47
Which ones would you recommend? Okay, it's not consistent. Okay. Yeah, not gonna fix

Jennifer Fugo 37:51
you because it's too significant of an issue. And so again, this is sort of where, like, skin is very different than Functional Medicine and how it approaches like autoimmunity because you could have many things show up on a stool test, and it's not as big of a deal for like, say, chronic gut issues and whatnot for skin, it is a big deal. They are different beasts. And I think that's been a hard thing for a lot of people who are seeking answers to find because the practitioner is like, Oh, well, I do functional medicine. I've been trained in I IFF certified, you know, I've done all these things. But the reality is they don't teach about skin, and I only know this because of the historical experience. And the few colleagues that I have that are really knowledgeable, and skin have noticed this same exact problem is that you have to do so much more work. Unfortunately, if there's a gut mess, it requires so much more work, and it would for like a chronic, like diarrhea or constipation case, or you have like Hashimotos, it just for some reason it requires more work because it's

Claudia von Boeselager 39:02
like systemic as well. And this is a really interesting point because I know a lot of people get the I guess it's Candida on the skin, like the fungal on the skin sometimes. So if they go in the sun, it'll they'll have like white patches. How would you say that could be best treated in general? Because I think this is quite a common scenario that people experience. Yeah, and then I have another question, but I won't stack them too much, Regina for

Jennifer Fugo 39:26
sure. So at least from my knowledge, again, I'm not a doctor, but it sounds like tinea versicolor. And so when that happens, and you have this fungal overgrowth on the skin that's resulting in those, that discoloration, some people will have white patches show up, other people will end up with this hyperpigmentation. So it's different than melasma melasma that'll show up on the face. It's very different. But that, to me, is a clear sign. You have fungal overgrowth internally. So, a lot of times, people will try creams, but the cream sort of keeps it at bay. I would pretend They go back to the doctor. This is me. If it was me, I go back to the doctor, and I'd ask for antifungal oral medication. I would start there. Then I would go on and continue working on reducing fungal organisms with probably a more verbal option. It is a gut problem initially because the gut microbiome, the way that it is set up and modeled, for whatever reason, does seem to impact the way that other microbiomes show up. So, if you have dysbiosis in the gut microbiome, it is not shocking, at least in skin cases, to see dysbiosis of the skin microbiome. So if you've got fungus, and you can't seem to get rid of it on the skin with tinea versicolor, the most effective route I have found is sometimes it is bouncing back and forth between antifungal meds and antifungal herbs going back and forth, because I will be honest, if it's really bad, sometimes the herbs are not sufficient. And you do need some help. But the good thing is that antifungal meds do not have as drastic of a gut microbiome impact as antibiotics do because they don't kill bacteria. They're only impacting the fungal organisms and you have to be careful because some of them are hard on your liver, and they can cause an elevation of liver enzymes. So that's where you want to ask, like diesel Catholicon is all those you if you're if it depends, but I would ask the doctor can you check my liver enzymes to make sure that they don't start off elevated? Because then you're not you're not a good candidate for for those types of things? And if they do get elevated, how are we going to handle that? Now, there are a lot of alternative options to deal with, but just be aware that some do Neistat, and the oil is one of the only antifungals that I'm aware of that will not cause an elevation of liver enzymes.

Claudia von Boeselager 41:58
Okay, that's what's really important to know as well. And I want to ask you, because obviously, it's very trendy now. And I'm in I'm in that pool as well to take mushrooms, right? So it's like the Reishi Mushrooms or the lion's mane? quadriceps, for example, for energy, there are different things. So what is your view on the impact of that, and then essentially also on skin? There are obviously a lot of benefits to it. But is there anything people should look out for so that they're not getting too much fungal exposure,

Jennifer Fugo 42:26
so I don't consider them to be the same thing, even though, yes, they're fungi. We have clients that we use, especially for T SW, and people of color just. EPS is really helpful, by the way, but we use medicinal mushrooms in our practice, so I don't consider them to be so a I don't use the Candida diet, I don't believe it's a really great template. Because most of the time, you can't you can't starve the yeast, I'm just going to say that I think that's a really fair statement to make. Because of so many people who've tried the diet and it doesn't work and everything comes back when you try to reintroduce like a sweet potato, that's awful. I'd rather you'd be able to eat sweet potatoes or some type of healthy stuck carrots, you know, like healthy starches. But I don't consider them in the same. Like they don't have the same effect. So Tim, in my book, if you can tolerate them, then great. I don't have any issue with that. Enjoy them. However, you can support whether it's, like you said, your energy or your stamina; they have some Reishi, especially some immune system modulating capacities. Again, not nothing magical, but it can be very helpful in a combination of different things. But I don't have any issue and I don't actually have any issues with clients who have fungal overgrowth eating mushrooms in their diet, either.

Claudia von Boeselager 43:51
Because it is so beneficial as well. Okay. So, Jennifer, I would love to also understand or share with people about food sensitivities triggering skin rashes. I think this is an important point too. People assume either like, Oh, I'm really allergic, but a amount of people, obviously through having chronic inflammation tend to have tonnes of food sensitivities. But can you talk about the correlation between food sensitivities and skin rash issues,

Jennifer Fugo 44:20
there definitely is a connection between food sensitivities, and I would almost argue food allergies because we do need to make sure to differentiate between the two, which I don't think most, the normal person does a good job of doing that. They kind of lump everything in together. And then there's the skin rash piece. So with atopic dermatitis or eczema, there is an increased risk of food allergies. It's not uncommon to see someone have that and asthma as well; potentially, you especially see this in kids. I think a couple of things need to be like, I think we need to change the narrative a little bit based on more current research. So first of all, children get sensitized to food. It's through their skin, not through what they ate in their diet. That is the new model. And that has been shown repeatedly. So when children are smearing food all over their faces, the cheeks, unfortunately, are one of the weaker barriers of the skin at a young age. And that's how you end up, for the most part, developing food allergies as a child. I've had Dr. Peter Leo on the show to talk about that and other guests. And there is research now showing that they really do feel that it is the skin barrier that is more the issue than ingesting it. So then the question says, what happens as an adult? Am I putting all these? I'm putting all these natural food-based skincare products all over my eczema, my psoriasis, whatever can like that, you should wonder like, we're not that different from a baby. I mean, we're still human being, we're obviously very different, but we're still human beings. So, Can an adult start to develop reactions to foods because they're applying it to a compromised skin barrier? I asked Dr. Leo this, he said it is not implausible. And that we should be careful, even though again and again, this is not advocating for like these fancy companies making like you know, the whole back of the bottles covered and ingredients. I'm not saying that. But we do have to be careful applying food directly to the skin. And sometimes, food-grade may not necessarily be the best thing when the skin barrier is really compromised. So how does that play a role then with our diet, so you can develop food sensitivities, I would argue that food sensitivities are the result of having a leaky gut or gut permeability as it is known in the literature, right? There's almost like 7000. You search PubMed, there are like 7000 different articles that will come up with gut permeability. So for anyone who says like, Oh, that's not a thing, it is a thing, you can just search gut permeability. The problem is gut permeability or leaky guts, not not the problem. And we've we for some reason, I think, because of marketing and because of functional medicine, we got kind of stuck on this idea that everybody has leaky guts. I want to heal my leaky gut. And the reality is, we it may not be the foods that you're reacting to themselves like they are not inherently bad. It may be what is happening between gut dysfunction and the gut microbiome. When you consume those foods. And thus you we have this leaky state, that you're now having an abnormal reaction to those foods. So can food sensitivity tests be helpful? Sometimes, sometimes they lead us down pathways that cause us to eliminate foods unnecessarily. If your guts leaky, whatever you eat, is going to show up as a moderator high sensitivity, I had one client I'll never forget, she had some weird squash that showed up on her food sensitivity to shame and know what that was. She never eats it. So they show a lot of inaccurate responses, unfortunately. And again, if you go and change your diet to what it tells you all these low ones, the low you should eat those, right? How many times have you heard like, a lot of practitioners say that they're like, oh, you should cut out the high in the moderate sensitivity, just focus on the low ones, you redo the test, and now you're sensitive to even more things. Because those are the things now predominantly in your diet. Again, the problem is not the food, it's the leakiness within the GI tract. So the other factor here we do have to be cognizant of is that there is more current research showing that when you unnecessarily eliminate food so for example, I like eggs, I personally think if we're going to talk about any like superfoods, and I kind of hate that term, but if we're going to talk about anything being

Claudia von Boeselager 49:06
a superfood, I think an egg is a superfood, organic,

Jennifer Fugo 49:09
organic egg. Organic eggs are superfoods, but if you go into eczema Facebook groups, they'll tell you eggs are bad for eczema. What happens when you eliminate eggs because you read online that somebody told you it was bad for eggs, men, it's inflammatory. You take eggs out, you still have eczema. Didn't do anything? Well, I can tell you what can happen not to everyone but to a client. She took out eggs about a year and a half later we started working together, and we're trying to reintroduce foods as quickly as we can into her diet because of how much she had eliminated. We get to eggs, and she sends me this horrific photo of her face. Lipstick is all blown up, eyes are all red, skin is all splotchy and swollen, and I'm like, Oh, you need to go to the allergist. That Looks like an allergy. And she's like, No, no, no, I think I just had a rash flare-up. I'm like, no, no, no, please humor me. She has such an egg allergy she needs an epi pen now. And she did not have an egg allergy prior to eliminating them. So the, the current research does show that by unnecessarily eliminating foods, you can develop upon reintroduction and actual IGE. Allergy to those foods. So again, I'm not saying this to scare anyone, but we should be more cautious about the foods that we eliminate, especially when there are healthy whole foods. I'm not going to sit here. I mean, Claudia, I think you and I are on the same page. We're not suggesting that like, oh, let's just keep it all in, including your McDonald's lunch and all of this soda and everything. We're not saying that because I think the problem is when we get into demonizing real food, the real single ingredient thing that came from the earth or that is very derived. I think that's where we get into trouble. And the price of trying to heal your skin and your health in my book is not, it shouldn't be an eating disorder, or food fear or because just because your skin say clears up. Most people still are afraid to go back and eat foods. They're afraid to reintroduce foods, so they don't, and they stay on these very restrictive diets. And our culture perpetuates this idea. If you go on Instagram, it's very easy to find all of these influencers with a million followers who are like, look, I only eat these things. Everything else is inflammatory. And we glorify this idea that the smaller our diet is, the more restricted our diet is it somehow equals health. But we forget, in the process, the joy of being able to sit at a table and share a meal with family members. We forget about the diversity of cultures and cultural flavors that come with it. I had one client who was from she was from Iran. And everything like lentils and every spike every Oh, this has salicylates, this has nightshades. You can't have this it has it has this it has that she was like, I can't eat anything from my culture. It's all deemed inflammatory. And I think that that is a very sad state of affairs. So, can you heal chronic skin problems without doing massive elimination diets? Yes, that has been a big push for me. I did some research with UC Davis. We interviewed 600 people. And they all had chronic skin issues. And we asked about what happens when they eliminate foods, and they all acknowledged to varying degrees. But I'm happy to share the paper with you because it was published.

Claudia von Boeselager 52:54
Yeah. link it in the show notes for people as Yeah,

Jennifer Fugo 52:57
when we look at like 18 to 24-year-olds, it's like 80% of these individuals end up with food fear. Wow.

Claudia von Boeselager 53:05
Because of harsh media, would you say it's triggering, tricking them? Or

Jennifer Fugo 53:09
it's hard? Like when you think that the food is the problem? You pit yourself against it? Yeah. And so now all of a sudden, you're like, what was in that meal? Was it this? Was it that you're recounting? I mean,

Claudia von Boeselager 53:21
and pushing up the cortisol and stress levels, which is detrimental to your health at the best of times, anyway, yeah.

Jennifer Fugo 53:27
And you're putting yourself at war with something that's supposed to be not nourishing

Claudia von Boeselager 53:31
and fun and enjoy

Jennifer Fugo 53:34
it, especially the fact that long term, it creates this trauma response that you start to have around food, which is not healthy, it's not good. So I just, I think that's been one of my big, big missions over the last couple of years is to remind people that the way that we can address these things, so again, it's not about saying let's keep all the junk food in. But what are we doing when we're then saying strawberries are bad? I mean, like, I literally get, oh, it's strawberries. They're, they're bad for you. You know, or any number like and donate, we won't even go down the rabbit hole of like meat versus all this other stuff. I mean, we could go in many different directions. But I think it's like, what are we doing? We're missing the boat here on all the other factors that play a role in this inflammatory picture. And yes, you can absolutely have environmental allergies that can be causing things, you can absolutely have some sort of exposure or even actually, you can end up with rashes or psoriasis and any number of things as a result of certain medications you're taking. So you should always look at the side effects of the meds you're taking because, like I think, certain blood pressure medications can actually trigger psoriasis. So I mean, yeah, you know, there are there definitely can be the

Claudia von Boeselager 54:56
detergents and things that people are using, as well as cleaning products. You know, it's just Being so aware of that I've had to re-educate it with a lovely lady who comes in and helps clean the house. And she's always telling me to buy these super strong products. I'm like, I refuse. We use the environmentally friendly ones. And I tried to explain to her to encourage other families, she's inhaling the but we're inhaling it, you know, you put these sprays on your desk, and then you sit there for hours, and you're inhaling these toxins as well. So there are different factors, as you were saying, as well with black mold as well, that it's really important to take into account. And, you know, the diversity of food is so important. I know people here also like, Oh, I've eliminated everything. And I'm just doing this suddenly other. I mean, 1000s of us humans exist in diversity, you know, as Dr. Mark Hyman recommends, as we have 30 different colors of organic add vegetables, some fruit each week, as well. So it's literally just staying on the outside of the supermarket. Avoid those inner aisles as much as possible. And have that diversity, too. So yeah, I really like your mission, Jennifer and, and helping people understand these key phrases and trends of just focusing on one specific thing or even eliminating vegetables and just eating meat. I mean, you know, we're not raised to do that. And, yeah, so big debate. I know a hot topic for a lot of people as well. Jennifer, I'd like to ask you about the four we finished up today. The skin microbiome you mentioned a few times as well. Some people might be scratching his heads. Well, hang on. I know there's a microbiome in your scalp as well, right? But what exactly is the skin microbiome? And how related is it to the gut microbiome, which I'm sure people are much more familiar with? And how does one regulate tip so that it stays in an optimal state?

Jennifer Fugo 56:34
So this skin microbiome is this whole environment of organisms, and it can include bacteria, fungus, viruses, mites, all sorts of things that live on the skin, they tend to be different strains specifically for like bacteria, for example. They tend to be different strains and what's living in the gut microbiome. The reason is that they tend to be lipid-loving. So think about it, our skin is oily, right? We we produce sebum. And so a lot of times, the organisms that live on the skin, depending on the different areas. So there are maps that you can find in literature where they'll show you that like the sebum heavy areas, so like your scalp, the eyebrows around the mouth, the chest, where people a lot of times can end up with dandruff, or Seborrheic Dermatitis are predominantly more Malizia, which is a commensal yeast that normally lives on the skin. And then other, more like sweaty areas and whatnot, have a slightly different makeup of the different classes of bacteria. And so they're lipid-loving because that's what they thrive off of. Whereas with the gut microbiome, they're really thriving off of fiber, right, and they produce short-chain fatty acids in the GI tract like butyrate, which is really important for gut permeability or reducing gut permeability and tightening up those junctions between the cells and whatnot. So it is different. But I do believe that there are communication signals between the two. That's why I said we've noticed with clients who have had recurrent skin infections, whereas we work on the GI tract, and the gut microbiome starts to go back to a more healthful balance slowly, they usually show a reduction in the number of times that the skin like how susceptible they are basically to skin infections. Now look, if you go and lay on a mat at the gym that has Mersa on it, which is those antibiotic-resistant kinds of iterations of staph aureus. That's a different story because that's an external contact that could be a problem for you. But it's not that, and it's literally just that you just keep getting staph infections or you can also get strep infections on the skin; you can have, as you shared the tinea versicolor, you can have fungal overgrowth on the skin, we do have malice ccja you can react to Malassezia some people do develop reactivity to it but more with dandruff and seborrheic dermatitis, I find that it's reactivity internal, so your body becomes reactive to yeast internally and that is seeking yeast trying to do you know, be the good immune system for you. And it starts attacking things it's not supposed to, and so it'll go after those areas where Malassezia predominates. But yeah, the skin microbiome is really important, and so is the pH of your skin. You do not want alkaline skin. Actually, you don't want an alkaline colon either. Your colon should be acidic, and your skin should be acidic. The skin should stay within a range of 4.5 to 5.5. So water is usually somewhere around the seven soaps around the nine. So, one easy tip that people can use after, say, you wash your faces. So, number one, what you wash your face with does matter, right, because if we're increasing the pH of the skin, we actually open the skin up to becoming more dry. And to allow organisms that are unfriendly, like staph aureus, to overgrow because they actually like a higher pH or more alkaline pH. So if anybody's like, I need every area of my body to be alkaline, that whole alkaline acid diet thing, you do not want every area of your body to be alkaline, that is not good. And skin is not one of those things you want alkaline. So hydrosols can be really helpful. Hydrosol can be made from plant materials. So you can see, like Rose hydrosol and geranium hydrosol, there are all different types. And it's, it's basically when they go to extract other things to make the essential oils, what's leftover, that water essentially is usually that that's usually what a hydrosol is, and they typically are of a more acidic pH. And so after you wash your face, you can spray your face with the hydrosol. And I like to just like kind of tap gently over my face, very light with my fingertips, and then apply any other creams or anything like that. If you're also very itchy. Another quick tip: Hazel hydrosol, not with alcohol. Try to get the lowest amount of alcohol in it. But witch hazel can be really effective for an itchy scalp or itchy skin. If but if the itch is because you have an infection, that's a different story. Please get treated for that. But if you're just itchy, witch hazel hydrosol can be really helpful.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:01:40
You have a favorite brand of hydrosol that you say is like always very pure.

Jennifer Fugo 1:01:45
Okay, don't I mean, everybody's all over the world. So I would just look for things that, if you can get organic, would be great. And again, try no alcohol if possible. But you do because it does come from a process involving plants. I would really stick to whatever the use-by date is. I wouldn't use something that's like two years old. If it hits the use-by date, toss it perfectly. Okay,

Claudia von Boeselager 1:02:09
what are three things Jennifer that listeners can do right now to start rebuilding their healthier skin? And what are things that they should definitely be avoiding?

Jennifer Fugo 1:02:18
The first thing I would say in terms of rebuilding your gut is something called Gi. I don't know if you're talking about it for a bit. He has a beautiful building

Claudia von Boeselager 1:02:27
healthy skin, healthy skin. Yeah, well. Okay.

Jennifer Fugo 1:02:32
Ghee is really helpful. we eat ghee, and it adds butyrate to the GI tract that helps to kind of seal or help as best we can to try and seal up the gut permeability, and butyrate is one of those things that's necessary for that because the inflammation happening in the GI tract it spreads out to the skin want to try and keep that contained as much as possible. So I do find that Gi is really helpful. also, pistachios, if you don't have a nut allergy or pistachio allergy, also have a good amount of gays.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:03:02
That's good because he doesn't like the taste, which is why he's grass-fed butter instead of coconut oil to cook with. But

Jennifer Fugo 1:03:08
grass-fed butter also has a good amount of butyrate as well. Coconut oil does not. But yeah, those are those are two great options. The other thing that I would say is I would try to simplify your skincare routine as much as possible, especially if your skin barrier is really damaged. Especially if you've got really dry red. So with rosacea, for example, you should not topically be using any anti-aging, I know that's awful, but like the anti-aging ingredients like retinol and vitamin C serums. And everything can be really aggravating for rosacea. And I would also argue that if you've got rashes on the face, you shouldn't be applying those things to the face either. That would be something not to do. So, simplify the skincare regimen. Find some sort of simplified soap, like sometimes a rose clay soap or a black clay soap can be helpful, especially if you have a lot if you're very oily, if you're really, really dry, maybe just a glycerin bar that can be a little bit more hydrating. Maybe sometimes you're just using water, unfortunately, because you just can't tolerate a whole lot more. And then I would also say that when you get out of the shower before you're fully dry, you pat your skin dry, but you're still kind of slightly moist. I know everybody hates that word, but it's moist. That's actually the time to apply your moisturizers because you lock in the moisture that is currently hanging out in the skin area. Do not wait until you're entirely dry an hour later or 20 minutes later. You then apply the cream. That's the time to towel dry off and then apply your moisturizers, and that does help in terms of other topical things. If you do have any type of wounds or rashes, you could also try something called hypochlorous acid. It is naturally made by your white blood cells, specifically your neutrophils, and it can be used topically to help with microbiome dysbiosis of the skin. It can help with the pH of the skin, but I wouldn't use it all the time. Unless you have a real significant dysbiosis problem, you don't want just to be killing everything on your skin. It's not caustic. It's not harsh. But it can be a bit drying. So just be aware of that. There's one product I like in the US it's called active skin repair. I think it might be available in the UK. I'm not sure I know you can get it in Canada. And that can also be really helpful as well for those dealing with dysbiosis and whatnot. And it's also great for mosquito bites, like amazing to make mosquito bites stop itching. I don't know why it works, but it does.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:05:57
My father taught me that his 85-year-old school method of saliva on a mosquito bite works not too well as well. Yeah. It neutralizes it as well. So, it's an old-school way. Jennifer, if you could live to 150 years old, with excellent health, how would you spend it,

Jennifer Fugo 1:06:13
I would spend it with the people that I love. snuggling with my cats. And every day being outside in my garden with my fruit trees and whatnot. That is 100% What I would do because that's what my great-aunts used to do. They used to spend time with the family eating together. And being out in the garden, hands in the soil and that kind of stuff. That's what I would do well for

Claudia von Boeselager 1:06:34
your gut bacteria as well. Gorgeous. What excites you most about the future of health longevity over the coming years and beyond? What actually

Jennifer Fugo 1:06:43
excites me the most is applying some of the things that are working for, I will say, relatively more healthy individuals to potentially those who have more chronic conditions. So, I am very curious about potentially using peptides for chronic skin problems. So, I am in the process of researching that. So I think that there are a lot of really interesting ways that we're seeing this improvement in the bio-biological age. My thought is, how can we apply that to somebody who maybe that's not their focus, but how could we potentially use it or tweak it so that it actually could be beneficial to their healing process?

Claudia von Boeselager 1:07:31
Interesting. So we have to keep us posted. If you find something interesting. Have you come back on as well, Jennifer? Where can people find out more about chronic skin issues healing them? internal inflammation for longevity, and also, what's the work you're doing and what you're up to? Where would you send people,

Jennifer Fugo 1:07:50
I would go to my website. So I've got you. You can just go to healthyskinshow.com. It's easy, it's the easiest way it'll get you there. There's also the podcast Healthy Skin Show, which was on all podcast platforms and on YouTube as well. And we have over 300 episodes, so we have a worldwide audience as well. So there are tonnes of things there. And it's for all different chronic skin problems. So, it's a great podcast to share with people who are digging and seeking answers. And then I'm on Instagram, I share a lot of a lot of this insight. But I also talk about a little bit more personal stuff, client stories, and whatnot. So you can find me at Jennifer Fugo. They're

Claudia von Boeselager 1:08:31
They're beautiful. Do you have any final ask recommendations, parting thoughts, or messages from my audience today?

Jennifer Fugo 1:08:38
You don't have to be stuck with chronic skin problems for the rest of your life. This is not something that's just because you have bad genes. It's not because you're just like, I thought I got the evil I put on me. Somebody I thought I was damned. Like I was like, What did I do? You're not damped. There are so many other things. And I understand, and going to see a dermatologist and going to the conventional route, you're probably not going to hear about this stuff. And it might even get dismissed. But I would invite you to check out the different guests that I have on the show. Because we are talking about research. It takes 10 years to get into the dermatologist's office. And we're talking about it now. And so that way you can bring it to your dermatologist not in like a look, I know more than you, but hey, I saw this. I wanted to see if maybe you wanted to see it. And we can facilitate this change that we want to see happen in conventional medicine by sharing information and hopefully inspiring that change from the top down. That's my idea: infiltrate has changed the system so we all can get better care. But you're not, you're not damned, you're not doomed. And it's not just that you have bad genes. There are so many different factors, and I don't want you to see that as overwhelming. Wow, there are other things that I can actually look into and that I can also take action on that could improve not only my skin and my health but also the health of my family to

Claudia von Boeselager 1:10:11
beautiful, such inspiring words. Thank you so much, Jennifer, for coming on today. It's been such a pleasure. Thanks for having me.