Transcript

Claudia von Boeselager [00:00:44]:
My guest today is Heather Moyse. Heather is a four time olympian, two time Olympic gold medalist, and the second canadian ever and only canadian woman to be inducted into the World Rugby hall of Fame. She has summited the highest mountain in Antarctica to raise awareness for PTSD and also raise money to help veterans successfully transition to civilian life after leaving the military.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:01:46]:
Heather is the founder of the possibility Playground and an author of redefining Realistic. Shift your perspective, seize your potential, own your story. Heather, I'm so excited to have you on the Longevity and lifestyle podcast today. Welcome.

Heather Moyse [00:02:01]:
Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:02:04]:
You have such an incredible story. I'm completely in awe. So well done for everything you have done, and thank you for coming on to share your wisdom and insights and knowledge. And I'd love to start with mindset because I think it's just a fundamental for so many of us, for so many of the things and how often we block ourselves. Now, as an Olympic gold medalist, you obviously have to overcome mindsets many a times. So how did you transform your mindset to develop an unwavering confidence in your abilities and talents and that relentlessness needed to become an Olympic athlete and to go on to become a gold medalist.

Heather Moyse [00:02:43]:
Yes, I think some of my own personal mindset came from one how I was raised, but also partly because of my master's degree in occupational therapy. I was actually trained to help people overcome the challenges that they face. So when I would, in my own right, come across my own challenges and obstacles along the way, it just naturally kind of converted. So it's an interesting thing to dial down when I'm actually working with clients or when I'm speaking to groups to be able to explain to them and help them with the tools necessary to move them forward and to help them shift their perspective so that they can still see the possibilities that exist regardless of whatever they're facing. And mindset is in my. Well, it's not even my opinion in research. It is the difference. It is the key to actually achieving your goals, because most goals will not happen without some kind of setback or hurdle or problem or inconvenience or whatever along the way.

Heather Moyse [00:03:49]:
And so there are those little mind shifts, I call them, that will help kind of get the right mindset to keep you going.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:03:58]:
So I'm going to dive into this because it's such an important topic. And I love the quote by Henry Ford. Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. And it's just like if you set yourself up to fail of like, I'm not going to be able to do know you're not going to even try. Right? So already you have to just start with that. But where were times in your journey where you really were pushing your mindset boundaries and where maybe doubts came in or uncertainty? And what were some of the tools and strategies that you were using in order to overcome that? Maybe you can give us a couple of concrete examples.

Heather Moyse [00:04:36]:
Yeah. Well, when I first started bobsledding, it wasn't because I loved the sport of bobsledding. It was because suddenly I was kind of convinced to do this testing camp and I broke one of their testing records. And it was only five months before the next Olympics. So for me, I fell in love with the challenge of seeing if I could actually do it or not, even if I could do it. But how close could I get to maybe qualifying and representing my country? So I had to make the decision if I was going to embrace this challenge or not without even having been in a bombsled before. When I started, things were going really well. And I was breaking some team records in testing, and we were pushing from the top of the track in training, and things were looking really good.

Heather Moyse [00:05:26]:
And then I overheard one of the coaches talking to my driver, my pilot, like one of the drivers on the team. And I overheard them saying not to put too much time or effort into developing me because it was an Olympic season and I was a rookie, and so probably wouldn't be able to handle the pressure. Now, for a lot of people, that would crush them. And for me, it was absolutely crushing to hear that. But I'm also a redhead, so I kind of take that as a little bit of fuel. Yes. So part of what I help my clients with is getting a little bit of that ginger fire in there and trying to, I don't know, combat those doubts. But a lot of it is either naysayers on the outside that stop us, or it's actually our own inner voice that has internalized some of these doubts from other people.

Heather Moyse [00:06:17]:
And what I've come to realize over the years with working with people is that we're not actually afraid of failure. We're afraid of what we assume failure will bring, which is rejection, isolation, ridicule, embarrassment, the judgment of other people. That is actually what we're afraid of more than anything. And so if we can actually pinpoint that comment or that thing that we are afraid that someone else is going to say of us and kind of dismantle that and then look at kind of in depth what that would look like, why does that one comet have so much power over your happiness, over your joy, over your sense of fulfillment, over all of the, what are the alternatives? Living with that regret in hindsight and being like, oh, my gosh, why did I let that one person dictate, like, look where I am now? I could maybe have been here, but instead, I let that one person, and that person might not even be in your life anymore. It might be this voice from high school that you hurt. So whatever it is. So those are the kinds of things that we're actually worried about, and those are the things. So for me, it kind of fired me up a little bit, and so I just.

Heather Moyse [00:07:27]:
Very timely. I received a card. Yes, a card in the mail from my sister back in the day. And the front of the card said, when nothing is sure, and I opened it and it said, everything is possible. So that means when nothing is sure until it's done, until it's happened, and until that point, until it's happened, until it is done, everything is still possible. So, for me, I wasn't pursuing a guarantee. I was pursuing a possibility of what could happen. And that's often when I'm working with clients.

Heather Moyse [00:08:00]:
That's how we set our goals. We don't set them as some binary outcome of success or failure, because that is scary. Like, if I don't succeed, it means I fail. But instead, if you set it almost like a spectrum and you embrace this challenge of seeing how close you can get to that, because you enjoy that challenge of seeing, even if you don't reach the top, you will still reach higher than if you ever just set goals that you knew were predictably guaranteed. And so a lot of those little mind shifts on how we set goals and how we approach challenges and how we even some verbiage of language we use in our own brains to combat our inner voices, as well as stopping those naysayers in their tracks right away, some of those little key things, little, sometimes even key questions, I can kind of help people trigger these questions, to help them move through, move past, move beyond those things that are kind of holding them back.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:08:54]:
So for people listening, what would be kind of the steps? So one is probably awareness. What is that? Let's say self talk? And then why are you making that mean so much to you? Why does that person have power over you? What is it that you're scared about? Like, the steps that if people are listening and they're thinking, okay, I need to do a mindset check in more often, what should they be looking out for?

Heather Moyse [00:09:16]:
Yeah, I think the biggest things are, okay, we have assumptions. We have self limiting beliefs. We have those fears I was talking about. And it's just the excuses that keep us in our comfort zones. So, again, that comfort zone is partly overlapping with fear. It's almost the fear of being the small fish in a bigger pond by going into another level. Whereas if you are maybe a bigger, like, if you're just comfortable in this space, then great. But you have to acknowledge that choices also have outcomes, and you have to be okay with whatever that outcome is.

Heather Moyse [00:09:51]:
That is conditional on the choices you make, which is fine. There's no judgment. If you want to choose to stay there, just know what those consequences are of those choices. But I think part of it is, like you said, catching yourself in those almost like mind traps and the things that. And so sometimes that's why it's great to have a buddy. Like, we talk about accountability partners in terms of staying on track to go to the gym or calling someone. And that's often why people hire coaches or trainers or these different things just to keep them on track because that means they will stay accountable. But sometimes you need that same person until you can figure it out yourself and kind of catch yourself in it, to catch yourself in those mind traps.

Heather Moyse [00:10:30]:
And one of the things is immediately, anytime you say you can't, the question you just need to ask yourself or ask someone else, whoever's saying it, you ask the question, are you sure? And usually the response is, yes, I'm sure. You're like, no, have you checked? And until you have checked, until it has happened, it is not sure yet. So you're not sure yet. And a lot of those times, it catches it right in action. And those tackle assumptions because we assume way too many things. We assume, oh, my gosh. I don't even know how many things we assume on a daily basis. But, for example, one little story.

Heather Moyse [00:11:02]:
My parents. I was visiting my parents, and my mom came into the room and she was talking about, she was all excited, and she was saying how she was so excited, she and my father had added something to their bucket list. And so I asked them what it was, and apparently it was to ring in the new year someday. Bring in this new year ballroom dancing in the imperial palace in Vienna. And so I was like, okay, that's a legit bucket list goal. Well done. Good job. Okay.

Heather Moyse [00:11:28]:
And so I said, are you going to do it this year? And she just said, oh, no, we can't do it this year. I said, why can't you do it this year? She said, well, it's too late. I said, what do you mean it's too late, mom? It's said, you know, new Year's Eve, like, we're still, like half a year. She said, heather, it's such a big deal. It would be sold out by now. And I said, are you sure? And she said, well, heather, it's a bit like it's televised. It's hosted by Julie Andrews. Like, celebrities and royalty go to this thing.

Heather Moyse [00:11:54]:
It would be sold out. And I said, are you sure? She said, well, heather. And I said, have you checked? And she said, well, no. So, of course, I hop on my laptop and I find what she's looking for, and I'm like, mom, they're not sold out. You can even decide which room you want to have your pre dancing meal in, which ballroom you want to be in, the main ballroom or, like, a more private one. And she's like, so I said, do you want me to get you guys tickets? Now, that would be awesome. And she looked so nervous all of a sudden, the reality of it being a possibility. And she said, well, it'd be more fun to go with somebody else.

Heather Moyse [00:12:27]:
So again, these kind of little excuses, comfort, like stepping, all that stuff. And I said, well, what about your sister? And, you know, my aunt Roberta and Uncle Alex? And they had gone traveling to Germany the year before. Mom said, oh, they would be perfect, but they're not going to be able to go this year. And I said, are you sure? Oh, well, they're going on a trip across the northern passage this year. They're not going to want to do two big trips in a year. And I said, are you sure? Like, is it over the Christmas holidays? No, but they won't want to do two big trips in a year. So she said, you call your aunt then. So I called my Aunt Roberta right away, explained this whole thing, explained how my mom really didn't think that they would be able to go.

Heather Moyse [00:13:05]:
But I just wanted to put it out there and cover all our bases. And she just listened and she said, tell your mom I'll run it by your uncle, but tell your mom I'll call her back. Within ten minutes, they called back and they said they were in that year. The four of them rang in the new year, ballroom dancing in the imperial palace in Vienna. So it wasn't even the logistics of going. It was the assumptions of, one, it being sold out. Two, that nobody else would be able to go in such less. Like all of these things that were stopping them before they even got started with a plan or logistics or any of those other things that should have been more of an obstacle than her actual mindset to begin with.

Heather Moyse [00:13:45]:
So sometimes we need each other to point those out. Until we actually start being able to call ourselves out with our own excuses and our own assumptions and stuff like that. So are you sure? Is very key. I want everyone to hold on to that one. Are you sure? It could be. Says who? Like, okay, you can't do well, why can't I do that? You can't do that. Well, are you sure? Says who? You can have all these follow up ones, but the biggest one is, are you sure? And then after that point, when people start sometimes these goals. And whether the goal is to get over an obstacle.

Heather Moyse [00:14:19]:
Or whether the goal is a goal you set in the beginning yourself, sometimes you need to what I call live in the how. You need to actually live in the how. Instead of saying, can I do this? You just need to use the word how and say, how can I do this? So if I say, can I do this? It's just, again, binary. It's yes and no. If it seems so extreme, then your answer is going to be like, no, I probably can't do that. But if it's, how could I do this? How can I do this? It automatically shifts you into problem solving, looking for a way. And then once you see the way, then you can evaluate whether it's something you want to try and pursue or not. But until you actually see the way it's done, some things just seem so overwhelming that when you're faced with a binary answer of yes or no, it's almost, to them, more realistic to say no than it is to look at the possibilities of how it could be done.

Heather Moyse [00:15:13]:
How would somebody do this if they were doing it? And then you start thinking about that stuff. So those are the two key shifts I want to share today, at least, the little mind shifts.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:15:23]:
Those are beautiful. And I think these are really perfect things to have posted around your desk as well. I remember a mentor was telling me once when she works with clients and they're talking about something, and then financial constraints is a big one as well. And I love the challenge that she sets her clients, she says, go off and write down 50 es, 50 ways that you could find that money to make that investment. And they all come back with 50 ways. They're like, I could sell my car if you had to reframes that. So I love the living in the how. I'm not a big fan of always how when you go to dreaming in terms of thinking big, because then you're like, how am I going to do it? But when you actually go, okay, how can I achieve that goal? How can I get there? Okay, I could do this and I could reach out to that person and I could do that as well.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:16:10]:
So it just shifts that mindset. So these are really beautiful tools, Heather. Thank you for sharing them.

Heather Moyse [00:16:15]:
Oh, you're welcome.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:16:17]:
I'd love to hear, as a woman and sports as well, what are some of the challenges that you felt that you had to overcome or that you saw or maybe you didn't see any? I don't know. And how did this form and shape your views of overcoming challenges and achieving bigger and bigger goals in a very sort of a type competitive world of professional athletes?

Heather Moyse [00:16:42]:
Yeah. So I grew up, I guess, in a time when it wasn't being a professional female athlete wasn't exactly something you were aware of even existed. So for me, there were some discrepancies, I would say, between the men's team and the women's team for rugby especially also for Bob sledding, but for both of those. And so there was that feeling of unfairness. But also at the time I recognized that for me I could either get really upset about that or I can realize that I'm choosing to do this, that when I'm presented with this, not a salary, but like a stipend or an invoice, because it was a pay to play. So the men were getting paid and we were paying to go on tour to represent our country. When we were getting these kind of invoices and saying, here's the next tour to represent your country, it's going to cost you $5,000 or $3,500 because we'll play for some of it, but the rest is 3500. I guess for me, I could have really gotten in my head and that potentially could have prevented me from playing.

Heather Moyse [00:17:50]:
I mean, kudos goes out to those people who do kind of internalize that to a point to make a change and make a difference. But for me at the time, it was just, I felt so, I don't know, excited and grateful to play. And I just realized that I always have a choice. If I'm not willing to pay that if I don't think it's fair, I can also not play. I can choose to not play. So I'm a firm believer in owning our choices and owning the consequences of our choices and what that means for us. And I do have the ability to control my emotions and how I feel about certain things because I have the autonomy of choice. That's how I got through those kinds of discrepancies, those kind of gender differences.

Heather Moyse [00:18:35]:
But in terms of other challenges, I dealt with logistical challenges, trying to balance rugby and bobsledding, and with bobsledding telling me that I needed to quit rugby. And with me saying, well, you recruited me as a rugby player, so I'm not going to quit. And then having them mesh out my schedule, like you guys both want me to compete, so I'm not going to make a decision. So you guys can just kind of battle it out and see what happens and just tell me where I'm going, when. And that was fine. And in terms of physical challenges and mental challenges, mental, emotional things, with some teams, there are definitely some emotional and mental challenges that go on with any teams. I think whether you're dealing with things in business, whether you're dealing with things in any kind of workplace environment, whether it's on a rugby pitch, whether it's on tour with the bobsled team or whether it's the leadership team of a multi million dollar company. So there are certainly challenges with dealing with different personalities and different people and the way that people operate and sometimes the way that the team functions from the top down also affects those sorts of things.

Heather Moyse [00:19:52]:
And I think again, I reverted back to it's my choice to be there. So I can either try and help the situation or I can also leave at any time. There was actually a point that I almost left. I almost left shortly before the Vancouver Olympic games and that's when we won our first gold medal. So I almost left. It was probably about a year and a half before that. And the small p politics happening on the team were just, they were just too much. It was taking a toll on me psychologically.

Heather Moyse [00:20:29]:
And when other people don't get along, when you get along with everyone and they don't get along with each other, you end up being caught in the middle and you kind of feel like you're walking on eggshells around really what happened too. It can be too much. So anyway, I just said, you know what? All of this stuff, winning a medal is not worth it. Like, dealing with this stuff, it's not worth it. And I mentioned this to my father. So my father was on a business trip in Toronto. He picked me up to go for dinner and I had just received some email that know this passive aggressive kind of something about another teammate. And I was just like, oh my gosh.

Heather Moyse [00:21:12]:
Okay. So I was really emotionally upset, very visibly emotionally upset when I got in that car. And I just said, it's just not worth it. Winning a medal is not worth dealing with this. And my dad who would, my parents would support me in any of my decisions. It wouldn't even matter. They could have cared less if I did sports or not, just that I was doing something that I enjoyed. But my father kind of just in his profound wisdom said, that's interesting.

Heather Moyse [00:21:40]:
I never really thought about that. This was about the medals for you. And I said, what do you mean? And he said, I always just thought about the number of people that you would be impacting whether you win a medal or not, the people you would impact simply from coming from a small town and your journey of just getting there. And all of a sudden I realized that our breaking points are on a spectrum. And so in my book I write know Simon Sinek talks about our why, like our reason for doing things. But I realized that it's not just your why, it's your root know, you have to ask that question a few times to get down to your real reason for doing, like, the feeling, the feeling you get, the value you're putting on something yourself, whatever. When you get down to that root why, the real crux of why you're doing something that will just, the further down you go in getting the actual why, the further along that breaking point spectrum will move. So if it is just simply to win a medal, for me, my breaking point was here.

Heather Moyse [00:22:46]:
But all of a sudden, as soon as I realized that it's not really about that. It's about the number of people I can impact and empower simply by pursuing this goal, simply by seeing how close I can get, simply by that sort of thing. All of a sudden, it wasn't so much about that medal. Yes. I mean, there were days I was training when I wasn't thinking about impacting people. I was thinking about, okay, I need to shave 100th of a second off my start. That's what I was thinking of. But on those days when it was really miserable, when it was kind of like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? I don't really feel like I need to win and prove that I'm the best.

Heather Moyse [00:23:24]:
The challenge is what I fell in love with. So all of a sudden, you figure out what your root why is and your breaking point, you suddenly can handle more. You're able to kind of put things in perspective and say, yeah, winning a medal might not be worth dealing with all this stuff, but if I can impact thousands of people from home, hundreds of thousands of people from around the world, that is worth it. All of a sudden now I can deal with the small people, and I can kind of put those in a little box on the side and compartmentalize things, and it really shifts what you're able to handle. And for some people, for some clients I've had, it's not about the pay raise. It's about the fact that that pay raise might give their child an opportunity to go to university because nobody in their family has ever gone before or whatever that why is. That's the thing that can help someone withstand whatever they're dealing with at work or whatever they need to do to take things to the next level.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:24:25]:
It's such a powerful exercise. I do it with my clients as well. Tony Robbins has a thing like the seven levels. Deep as it's.

Heather Moyse [00:24:33]:
Oh, I didn't know that.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:24:33]:
Yeah. And so when you get down there, like, when you get deep enough, people get emotional. I've had grown men cry on this. And they're like, oh, I'm not going to cry, I'll be fine. But it's like, no, it's getting really down and some people don't even realize it. And you can just tell a complete.

Heather Moyse [00:24:49]:
Energetic shift, that's where the vulnerability lies and that's actually what you're going for. For some parents, it has nothing to do with the pay raise. It has to do with a validation, like a sense of validation or self worth that they never received from a parent. It's some kind of self worth that they never got anywhere else. It's really interesting when you find that, because sometimes when you figure out what that is, the actual goal itself can change, because it's not necessarily. That might not be the only thing that can get you this, because this is what you really want. So that actual goal, it could be something else to help you find that exact same feeling, that exact same validation, that exact same feeling of self worth. And so it's really remarkable.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:25:34]:
It's really beautiful. So for people listening, I think it's do that exercise. Just keep asking yourself that for why? Question, like, why is this important to you? Why is this important to you? If you start feeling your heartstrings going, then you know you're getting close and then just in the right direction.

Heather Moyse [00:25:49]:
Yes, exactly.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:25:50]:
Heather, I'd love to shift gears a minute. How did this remarkable Heather come to be a multi Olympic sport athlete? Can you tell us a little bit about your background, your journey, and what were some of those pivotal moments? Because it doesn't sound like it was your parents putting the pressure on you and saying, Olympic medals, Heather, you have to perform.

Heather Moyse [00:26:08]:
You have to do this.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:26:10]:
Where did this all come from?

Heather Moyse [00:26:11]:
No, actually, we grew up not really watching sports on tv at all. I mean, there might be a random event that was on some international event or like the 100 meters dash that had been really hyped up for something. We might turn that on. Or the Super bowl, even though we didn't watch any other game all year, we'd watch, and then my sister and I would each pick a team based on what color outfit we liked better. It really was not really. We did not grow up watching sports, but we grew up playing sports all the time, but we grew up playing as though they were extracurricular to our academics, what we were going to do to earn a living. And it's not that I ever actively thought or intentionally thought or consciously thought that I could never do that, like, reach that level. It's just that it never occurred to me, because when you grow up in a small town, there's nobody around you training for the Olympics or training to even represent yourself on the world stage in anything.

Heather Moyse [00:27:08]:
So, like, olympians are tv people. I just never considered them normal people. Like, I considered myself to be, like, normal, everyday people, so it just wasn't a thing. And so I played. Like I said, I played sports my whole life, but I was from a very academic family, so again, I was just going to play on the side of whatever I was going to do to earn a living. So I pursued a career and a master's degree in occupational therapy. I didn't even know we had a national women's rugby team until I played in a tournament and an announcement. Someone came and announced to our team.

Heather Moyse [00:27:41]:
After that, I had been named to the long list of the national team. And I was like, what team? What are they talking about? And you're like, you've just been named to the long list of the national women's rugby team. And I go, we have a national women's rugby. I just didn't know. I played for fun my whole life through university, anyway, so it was great. And then I still went away. I worked abroad, I lived down in Trinidad and Tobago for almost three years, working with people with disabilities. Did a little bit of coaching down there with rugby, developing a women's rugby program down there.

Heather Moyse [00:28:16]:
And then when I moved back, my sister convinced me to just play club rugby again. And I was, ugh, do I really want to throw my body all over the place again? So, anyway, it would be fun. So I said, okay, great. I went and played with my sister, and the club coach just happened to be the Ontario, the provincial coach, and he was like, where did you come from? I. The last training session, the tryout. So my sister and I both made the Ontario provincial team, and then we had one game against Quebec, another province, before nationals, and a national coach just happened to be at that game. And so I was suddenly invited to this development camp right after nationals. So I went to this development camp, and my first tour with the national team was to England in about three months later.

Heather Moyse [00:29:06]:
Would have been August, September, October, yeah, three months later, my first tour with the national team. So it was very fast. It was a very fast progression. Once I came back from Canada after being away for rugby, and I think it was just. Again, I like reiterating that sometimes you go farther, sometimes even when you're not trying to get to another level, just if you purely enjoy and love what you're doing, then that is more so than chasing some other level because it comes from a very authentic, very real place. Now, I'm not saying I wouldn't have been better had I not watched a little bit more on tv or done some prep work to intentionally try and make that, but I think my journey really helps shift perspectives, especially for a lot of parents who have children and who are trying to encourage children or be the support system that their children need and want to get to the next levels. And so I'm able to bring a really different and unique perspective to that. And with bobsledding.

Heather Moyse [00:30:13]:
Bobsledding. They tried to recruit me after I finished my undergrad. So I was probably about 21. I got a call from this other track coach from a different university and he asked if I would. He just said, I've been asked to do recruiting for bobsledding and you're the first person to came to my mind, like, based on seeing you in track and field, I know you play rugby, so I think you have the ideal combination between strength and speed. So I was just like, who does? Why? No, I said, I'm not interested at all. And he said, heather, it's less than a year away from the Olympics in Park City, Utah, and I know who's on the canadian program right now. And you would be on the program for sure.

Heather Moyse [00:31:00]:
You'd be going for sure. And I was like, no, dennis, I'm not interested. And he said, heather, you'd be an olympian. Now pause. I could tell immediately by the tone of his voice that going to the Olympics had always been a goal of his, but it hadn't been a goal of mine. I didn't grow up dreaming about wearing full spandex in front of millions of people. But I had always wanted to do work in a developing country. And I was.

Heather Moyse [00:31:26]:
I had just accepted an internship to go work down in Trinidad. And so I was pursuing my dream. I was pursuing what I wanted. I just never wanted to compete in the Olympics before. So he was a little upset, very confused, couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to go to the Olympics. But again, if you look at the things you want, and this is often why we get these opinions and values and everything from other people bombarding us, because we can't understand how someone else can't love the things that we love, like, oh, my God, you do not like chocolate. You think because you love it so much that everyone else must love it so much. And so it's the same thing with our goals and dreams or what we think is a good promotion or a good job.

Heather Moyse [00:32:14]:
And often we get influenced by that thinking that we're supposed to like that stuff, too. So I basically just kind of stood my ground and I said, no, I'm not interested. So I went and worked in Trinidad and Tobago for almost three years, and.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:32:27]:
The guy's probably there going, Heather, what are you doing?

Heather Moyse [00:32:31]:
Totally. So when I moved back to Canada to do my master's degree in occupational therapy, after the first year of the two year program, I ran into him again at my former track coach retirement party. And he was like, I can't believe you didn't do this. I can't believe it. Like, oh, my gosh, seriously? He goes, but I saw that you just did a few races, I still think you could do it. Goes, I know you're older now. And I was like, what are you saying? Like, you don't say that, first of all. But anyway, maybe he knew it would kind of razz me up.

Heather Moyse [00:33:02]:
So I said, I agreed to do the testing. I said, just send me the information, I will do the testing. Now, fortunately for me, I missed the first day of testing because of rugby nationals, and the whole first day was all weightlifting and I had never lifted weights before, so I was 27, I'd never lifted weights before. And so thank goodness I missed that first day because I wouldn't have told anybody that. I would have just tried to copy what everyone else was doing and probably would have crushed myself with a bar or something. But anyway, the next day was speed testing and plios and power testing, and again, I hadn't done any of those tests before, but at least I wasn't going to crush myself with a bar. Like, it was safer to sprint and do those jumps and stuff.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:33:48]:
You were less of a liability to yourself.

Heather Moyse [00:33:50]:
Exactly, yes. So I ended up breaking one of their testing records, and all of a sudden it was like, what? I broke a record amongst all these people who have been training for years and who are supposed to be representing us at the next Olympics in five months. The Olympics were five months later, and all of a sudden it was like, I wonder if I could do it. I wonder if I could actually learn a whole new sport, learn to do it well, and actually learn to do it well enough in time to qualify and maybe represent my country. So I went back to Toronto and I had to speak with my faculty advisor. I put my master's degree on hold just for a year. So it was five months for this Olympic thing, and then also the Rugby World cup was that summer, so taking a year was probably a really good, timely thing. Anyway, so I took the year, and in those five months, it was about leaving everything on the table.

Heather Moyse [00:34:48]:
I kind of developed this. No regrets equals no philosophies excuse. No regrets equals no excuses. Like, to have no regrets means absolutely no excuses. No little voice of doubt in my mind as I step up onto the starting line thinking I could have done something more. And, yeah, it was a pretty cool challenge to see if I could do that. And then, of course, coming fourth at the Olympics and missing a medal by 500 of a second. And so it's an accumulated thing.

Heather Moyse [00:35:22]:
Like, this is four runs down the track, so it's 5.7 if you're whichever way you want to look at it. And to miss after all that distance, to miss standing on the Olympic podium by only 500 of a second, that is unfinished business if there ever was such a thing. And so, for me, I went back and finished my master's degree, but that fourth place was haunting. So I was like, okay, if I don't go back, then the next Olympics were Vancouver. So, again, home soil, which would have been really cool. So that was part of the incentive, but part of it was just, do I want fourth place to be my story forever? Like, do I want. And so, again, with clients, I'm getting goosebumps. You can make the choice to try and step outside of your comfort zone and go, or you can realize that this is where you're going to be at.

Heather Moyse [00:36:17]:
You're going to stay here and are you okay with that? Are you okay with later looking back and being like, I didn't even try, or I didn't even take one step, I didn't even look into what it would take to get, like, I didn't do anything to see if that was possible. Said, if you're okay with where you are right now forever, then great. But I was not okay with forever saying that fourth place was going to be my story.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:36:44]:
So I'd love to look at. I don't know if you went to. Is it the phone ringing?

Heather Moyse [00:36:50]:
Yes. I'm not even in my house, so we're good. Okay.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:36:57]:
I'd love to understand how discipline, the word discipline, some people have very negative connotations with it as well. But obviously, to go from just being an Olympian to a gold medalist, right? What was that tenacity of coming forth and making a decision? I don't want to just be that. To be my story. Like you were just sharing. What is that discipline? What is that drive? Can you describe that to people that made you decide, okay, I'm going to go all in. I've got four years of training ahead of me. Such a huge commitment for the hope of maybe 1 second faster, whatever that number might be, whatever it needs to be, right. So what is that unbelievable internal dialogue which must have been going on, to commit to something like that, to make that decision, and then that unwavering discipline over a prolonged period of time, which very few people, I think, on the planet are able to do at that level.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:38:00]:
Can you walk us through what you went?

Heather Moyse [00:38:03]:
Yes, I can definitely walk you through, but you're right, discipline is getting a negative connotation these days. By saying if you're disciplined, it means you don't actually. You're telling yourself that something against what you want. So for me, I never actually looked at it as discipline anyway. It was always just, this is my choice. So it's always about choices and consequences. And for me, holding on to this no regrets philosophy, like, at any point when someone sets a goal, I want them to set them huge and audacious and whatever. I want them to be amazing, because again, I'm helping them set them on a spectrum and just to challenge themselves to see how close they can get.

Heather Moyse [00:38:41]:
And so by doing that, it kind of empowers them to take more choices, to take more risk. When you're challenging yourself, it's almost like there's not as much risk because it's not the success failure outcome. And so everything is a choice, but by recognizing that every choice has a consequence, and if you can make every choice that you make, make it so that when you look back, if you do not make your ultimate goal, that there's nothing else you could have done or there's nothing you could have done differently, then you will have no regrets, because there are so many things that are out of our control, and Bob's letting a kajillion things out of my control. For one, I don't even drive the sled. I can only push it and give it the fastest velocity I can. The rest is out of my control. So to be at peace with any outcome, to be at peace with coming forth at the Olympics, yes, that felt like unfinished business. It felt like another challenge on the horizon.

Heather Moyse [00:39:41]:
But in that moment, there was nothing more I could have done for that. I didn't look back at any of my training and I could actually say, there is nothing more I could have done. So that is the only way that you can really be at peace with any outcome at the end, is making sure that you gave everything. That is how I help people with their decision making. Like, yes, okay, it might be may 2, four weekend, going to the cottage or whatever with everybody and having a big, long weekend camping out or something, but can you do your training there? Or can you still get that proposal ready while you're there because it's due on the Monday? Or can you do the work that you had promised yourself you were going to do while you're there? If you can, great. Do a work out there. Do whatever they do, whatever. But if you can't, you have a choice, and your choices will reveal your priorities.

Heather Moyse [00:40:29]:
And if your priority is achieving this, then you will make this decision. If it is not a priority, then you will make this decision. And so, for me, to be frank, the drive for me came from not wanting to have any regrets in hindsight. And if someone can say, you know what, no, if I don't make it, I'm fine, then great, then I'm not judging you. This is your story. This is your journey.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:40:57]:
You do you.

Heather Moyse [00:40:57]:
But I will help you try and come up with these little shifts to help you stay on track, if you actually want to stay on track, or things to at least not even keep you on track, but to help you evaluate if you want to stay on track. Because when people set goals, I do not want them to set goals with blinders on. Because when you set goals with blinders on, you might achieve that goal, but you may have missed a better opportunity that presented itself along the way. And sometimes people are so driven to achieve something that they have set out to achieve, or they keep going because they've told people they want to achieve that and they don't feel like they convere or they don't even notice that there's this incredible opportunity on the side that they just did not see because they had those blinders on. So, yeah, to me, it's always about choices. And I want you to see the opportunities that come by and see the events or parties that you could be invited to or this wicked job opportunity or whatever, and every single time, choose which one you want to take, choose which path you want to take, choose what kind of future you want to have, what kind of feelings you want to have in the end, as long as my whole thing is that, one, I don't want people to sell themselves short, but two, I don't want them to be able to look back on their lives with any regret of opportunities missed. Sometimes it's dialing people back from their work. They've reached such a high level.

Heather Moyse [00:42:24]:
But their level of fulfillment and happiness is not nearly as high as some other people would expect it to be. And so for those people, for those clients, it's about figuring out what actually makes them happy. Because being at the top of the mountain with a lot of money, by yourself, it's not always the happiest place to be.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:42:45]:
It's lonely.

Heather Moyse [00:42:46]:
Right?

Claudia von Boeselager [00:42:47]:
And as we know, for longevity and happiness, it's about human connection. And so know spending time, taking time, making time. Right. With others. So, Heather, how did you go on to summit the highest mountain in all places, Antarctica, to awareness for PTSD, what was happening there?

Heather Moyse [00:43:10]:
Yeah, so that was really random. I'm not a mountain climber. The highest mountain in Antarctica, Mount Vincent, is. That is the first mountain I've ever climbed. So go big or go home, I guess. I don't know. I got a very random phone call from a man who apparently, whom I had met at a previous fundraiser for Rugby Canada. And this phone call came in and he said he's a huge supporter.

Heather Moyse [00:43:40]:
He and his whole family are big supporters of rugby, huge rugby fans, and they're also huge supporters of the military, of the armed forces. And he just said, those are the two charities, the two passions that his entire family contributes to all the time. So he said, that's true patriot Love foundation. It's a foundation that supports veterans and soldiers, but servicemen and women transition back to civilian life after their finished service. And so he said, this is this fundraiser for this, and a bunch of civilian people are going to climb a mountain, and some military people are going as well. Some of these military are all kind of suffering or all kind of dealing with and managing somewhere along the spectrum of PTSI. So they're kind of handling. So here I'm listening to this call and I'm like, okay, here comes the ask.

Heather Moyse [00:44:43]:
Like, he's going to ask me to donate an item for an auction or fundraiser, whatever, because this whole thing was a big fundraiser. And he's like, so I just wanted to ask you if you would be willing to climb the mountain. And I'm like, here, I'm asking for a jacket, like a signed hat or a jacket or something. And so I'm like, what? So this whole thing, he said, yes, it costs $50,000. And I'm like, okay, I'm a bods letter. I didn't make that. It's not a money making sport, that's for sure. But he said, but I want to sponsor you to do it because that will be my contribution I will sponsor you to do it because I think by you going on the trip, it will raise more visibility, it will raise more awareness, and I think that.

Heather Moyse [00:45:35]:
I really feel strongly that you would make a really big difference, and I think you would make a difference on the team. And I was like, oh, my goodness. So I actually said. I said, what's the commitment? He said, well, it's a couple of weeks, or I think a week in August for training, and then it could potentially be the whole month of January. Like, you have to kind of commit because you don't know about weather, you don't know about all these different things. So three to four weeks in January. And I was like, okay, can I give it some thought and call you back? Because in my head, I'm just like, for what I do with coaching and with speaking, like a speaking engagement, I could get two or three months worth of income within a week, and it could be that week that I've dedicated to going away. And so it was a little, like, at the time, I was nervous about committing to that time.

Heather Moyse [00:46:28]:
Anyway, I hung up the phone, and not even two minutes later, I felt so ashamed of myself. I felt so ashamed of myself, because the only reason I am able to live a life I choose to live is because those servicemen and women have put their lives on the line in order for me to do so. And I was embarrassed. I was ashamed. I just could not believe. So I called him back and I said, it doesn't even matter. I'm in. I hate walking, by the way.

Heather Moyse [00:47:00]:
I'm not a walker. I hate the cold. Just run very fast for very short distances, but I hate walking. I'm not an endurance person, and I hate the cold. All of those things, none of them I want to do. I've never climbed a mountain, but I will do this. I will try and do this, because for what it was for. For the absolute shame and embarrassment that I felt for even not, like, even needing time to think about or something like that.

Heather Moyse [00:47:32]:
Yeah, I was in. I was all in. It was pretty remarkable. It was a life changing experience. Not because of the mountain. It's very cool to be able to say that I climbed it, and that's fine, but the life changing part was the people. It was the people. It was.

Heather Moyse [00:47:51]:
I would consider some of those people still very close family members now. And still, like, seven years later, I'm still in touch with. Almost eight years later, I'm still in touch with some of those servicemen and women who were on that trek. We went to one of the, like, a handful of us went to one of their weddings. Some of us went to one of their kind of retirement things that was held at the base. It was really an incredible experience. So, yeah, that's how that happened. But again, it was, like, completely outside of my comfort zone.

Heather Moyse [00:48:31]:
Completely.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:48:32]:
Clearly, you do this a lot of things out of your comfort zone, right?

Heather Moyse [00:48:37]:
Some people are like, oh, you must be an adrenaline junkie. I am not an adrenaline junkie, but I enjoy challenges. And for things like this, like for that charity, for that thing, I'm just like, I talk about people. What are you capable of and what are you capable of? Doesn't even necessarily mean what are you capable of in terms of your output? But what about your impact? What about the impact you can have on other people or that ripple effect of action just by doing something? Even the whole last section of my book talks about impact and talks about our ability to make impact and where we have no idea. We have no idea, actually, the extent of the impact we have on other people. Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:49:21]:
So beautiful. And I think that people who have a purpose that is above and beyond themselves and in terms of helping others, those are the ones also that just, it doesn't matter. And they'll push through and they'll work through because it's not about, you realize, it's not about you, how you can help, how you can serve. Right? And so that's just a beautiful example. And I think most people would be like, oh, January, and I don't know, and it's a time commitment or whatever, but sometimes it takes that second of hanging up the phone and being like, hang on, what am I doing? This is not my value.

Heather Moyse [00:49:54]:
And you know what? I'm kind of grateful now that that happened because it really made it, really.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:49:59]:
Meanted it for you. Right?

Heather Moyse [00:50:01]:
Cemented it even that shame. I mean, I'm kind of glad I felt that shame because I'll never let myself feel that way again in terms of that, in terms of where my priorities lie and what is actually important to me. And that was a big reminder for me that there are things that are more important than a gig, like a one off gig, or even an income at a certain point. And when you put things in perspective like that, where, again, the only reason I am able to do the things I choose to do, to live the life I choose to live is because of those servicemen and women who've put their lives on the line for they've chosen. That boggles my mind, but they have chosen to put their lives on the line so that we can live the lives we choose. And to me, that is a gratitude that is so profound in me.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:50:56]:
Yeah, a whole nother level of service. But I think you make a really interesting point there, and I think this is part of it as well, is that how often do we forget to pause before taking a decision? And so that was maybe your pause. It was under a slightly other pretext. But we're so in this automation flow, and as you said, with the blinkers, like, with your tunnel vision goal, like, oh, no, this isn't it. But sometimes it's like, pause, take stock, and just realign. Like, okay, is this of my highest purpose? Is this what I'm looking to do? Is this a bigger opportunity that maybe I could take advantage of? So I think that's just a good reminder of sometimes not to forget, to pause and just reassess for a minute. And that gave you the huge value of experiencing for you, what was shame for a split second before you called back. But it just helped to really solidify that feeling, like, this is not the right way.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:51:46]:
I want to go. I'm going to commit to climbing Antarctica's highest mountain. And I'm so curious, Heather, it seems like all these amazing opportunities sort of magnetized towards you, which makes me think you must have some beautiful practices of just maintaining a very good, balanced. I don't know, are they routines? Like, do you have certain practices that help to set you up each day during the week to just be the best version of yourself?

Heather Moyse [00:52:12]:
I don't. No, I don't. And I've been sharing that with people because I think that social media has made a lot of people feel very inadequate. I think social media and saying, oh, you need a morning routine. You need to be up at 04:00 a.m. Because you get this amount of work done before everyone else is up. And it makes those of us who sleep until eight or nine because we actually do better work in the evening, it makes us feel like all of a sudden there's self doubt and inadequacy, these feelings of inadequacy, especially as an occupational therapist, I have learned there is not one way to reach a certain outcome. There is not one way.

Heather Moyse [00:52:52]:
There is not one met, like, one way that is right for every single person. And you might end up in the same place and have a completely different path to get there, or you may take the same path and stop at different points along the way. You may not even end up in the same place. So, to me, I think what works for one person does not work for somebody else. And I think it's figuring out what that is. I do think that it is important to some people like to, say, meditate. I don't do the traditional meditation. I believe in being in the moment.

Heather Moyse [00:53:28]:
So for me, I cannot sit and try and empty my brain for minutes at a time. But I am very good at being in the moment. And especially when it comes to stepping outside and just watching, actually watching the leaves or actually watching a squirrel chasing a chipmunk across the branches. When you're taking that in and when you're watching how those things are unfolding and kind of getting entertainment out of those things, then you have shut the outside noise away. You have blocked that away. And I think that those are the moments that are the most important for me, and those are the most grounding moments. And those are the moments that you need to step into. For some people, they can do it daily.

Heather Moyse [00:54:12]:
For some people, it's one day a week where they can kind of step away from the noise. And for some people, I'm adding retreats to my business simply because of this. The need to disconnect in order to reconnect, helping people find that space, be able to step away from the opinions and values and expectations of other people in order to actually reconnect and remind yourself what's really important to you and what you want to go to and be kind of re empowered that you have the autonomy to make those choices and that you're the only one who knows what's right for you. So that's what I feel. So, no, I don't have a particular thing now. When I was training, I had a specific breakfast I had every morning before racing and that sort of thing. So I'd know what my body was doing. But no, every morning for me, every morning is a.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:55:10]:
Think you. But that hyper presencing what you're talking about. I had the pleasure of seeing Eckhart Tollo. The power of now speak last week alone. That's his whole mantra, right? That presencing, you just really transcend the monkey mind, that conscious thought. And you kind of reconnect with the true. You know, that is your form of.

Heather Moyse [00:55:32]:
Practice is very, oh, and there are different things that you can do. I really would find it hard to believe that someone's brain could still go a mile a minute. Doing a puzzle, for example, like doing an actual puzzle, it turns some music on. You could pour yourself a drink if you want, you could do whatever. But I think puzzling, like doing something like that. It can be so immersive that it actually gives your brain a break from other things that are going on in it. So even just something simple like that at home.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:56:03]:
Beautiful heather, as we finish up today, if you could live to 150 years.

Heather Moyse [00:56:08]:
Old, with which I will with you, I'm sure, exactly.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:56:12]:
When we live to 150 years old, how would you spend your time?

Heather Moyse [00:56:18]:
Oh, goodness. I would probably spend it doing this. Same as what I'm doing now. I love what I'm doing. I love empowering other people to see, to help them embrace these challenges, to see how close they can get, how good they can be, whether that's in their business, their career, or just in their lives. Like how they can elevate things to a higher level of fulfillment. I love speaking on stages and empowering groups of people at a time, but I also love the time I spend with my family, and that's very precious to me. The downtime, like, the downtime in the garden and growing vegetables and spending time at the cottage.

Heather Moyse [00:57:08]:
And when I say cottage, I mean, like, cabin, escape in the woods. I can't see myself doing many things differently than what I'm doing now.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:57:19]:
Beautiful.

Heather Moyse [00:57:20]:
Yeah, I can't.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:57:23]:
What excites you most about the future of health, longevity and well being in the years to come and beyond?

Heather Moyse [00:57:29]:
What excites me is the focus that more people are putting on energy. They're more of a balance and their energy. And I think that's really important. You can't be at your best without having the energy to be at your best. And to be at your best doesn't just necessarily mean to be able to go through the motions and function. It means having your mind, having enough energy to have your mind clear enough to have that champion mindset in any industry, to have that champion mindset so that you can make those mind shifts and you're alert enough and you're rested enough to be able to shift perspective and see the possibilities that still exist, to be able to overcome seemingly insurmountable obstacles that are in your way. Because we all know when we're tired, it doesn't have to be a seemingly insurmountable obstacle. A seemingly insurmountable obstacle could be the tiniest little inconvenience that just seems so trying, like, so hard to overcome.

Heather Moyse [00:58:34]:
And so you just can't see creative solutions and think outside the box to overcome these things when you're really tired. And just because you're functioning and getting the things done on a daily basis does not mean that you're not run down. That you're not flirting with burnout doesn't mean that you're actually working at your best, that you're not producing your best or performing at your best. So for me, again, that's why I'm adding retreats to my business. I'm adding this disconnect to reconnect, not to mention some really cool experiential things because of my love for traveling, but also just that need to learn how to recharge. And it's not even about resting. It's about recovering, which is something very different than just resting. So that's what I'm excited about, because more focus is being actually put on the need for legitimate recovery.

Heather Moyse [00:59:35]:
Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:59:35]:
And that reconnection as well, itself, right?

Heather Moyse [00:59:38]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, athletes. Athletes. The higher level you go as an athlete, the more emphasis is put on recovery. So recovery is just as important as the training, as the actual training that's going into it. But the higher level that you go in any other industry, I don't see the same emphasis being put on recovery. And it's not just physical fatigue, it's mental fatigue, like what you're asking your brain to do and the outputs you're producing and the ideas and creativeness and whatever. And there's just not the same emphasis put on recovery.

Heather Moyse [01:00:10]:
And so I think that that needs to shift, that needs to change. And again, like I said, it's not just about resting. It's not just about lying down. And it's not just about necessarily turning your brain off and watching Netflix for a couple hours. And no, I'm not endorsing Netflix. I'm just whatever is on tv, it is not just about that. Recovery is. It's almost like you need intentional recovery.

Heather Moyse [01:00:36]:
Rest and recovery are very, very different. Like, recovery is taking care.

Claudia von Boeselager [01:00:40]:
I like the analogy between sports here with the recovery as well. I've had Dr. Kelly Staradon as well, and he was really heartbroken about recovery and how important it is. And for sports, we understand it more, but it's very true for these very stressful, intense days in more corporate environment. It's like you need to have, or even as an entrepreneur, even as a.

Heather Moyse [01:00:57]:
Parent, even as it is very stressful. Like, whatever you're in, you're in it. And, I mean, just resting is great. Yes, your body needs rest and your mind needs rest. But to recover means that you need to actually do things that fill your bucket, that actually bring you joy. And those are the things that we often, and I'm guilty of it too. Those are the things that I need to get better at, that other people need to get better at is actually actively doing things that light you up.

Claudia von Boeselager [01:01:31]:
That's recovery, play, laugh, have fun, connect with others as well. Heather, we've gone a little bit over today. Where can people follow what you're up to? Where can they follow you on social media?

Heather Moyse [01:01:45]:
Where would you, oh yeah, I'm mostly on social media. Primarily on Instagram and Facebook. I would say both of them are just. Heather, moist handles are easy. Heather Moyce my website Moysemoyse yes, I'm sure you'll probably have it on the.

Claudia von Boeselager [01:02:02]:
Link in the show notes.

Heather Moyse [01:02:03]:
My website is just heathermoyce.com. If people are interested in my book redefining realistic, it's easy to find it on there. There's the hardcover you buy through the website. I can sign them, which I love, and sending them to people softcover you can get on Amazon, but the audiobook is also available. So however, people enjoy that. And maybe I'll pass on the QR code to you of where people can sign up for a little mini video series that I'm sending out to people kind of as a lead up to when I end up launching those retreats. So these videos are to help people shift their perspective. It's a little boost of motivation, kind of perspective shifters.

Heather Moyse [01:02:48]:
And also will lead up to when we actually launch the retreats for 2024 so they can keep interested in that and it would be great.

Claudia von Boeselager [01:02:58]:
Amazing. I know I'm going to be doing a few retreats in 2020 for myself.

Heather Moyse [01:03:01]:
I think it's so important.

Claudia von Boeselager [01:03:02]:
Yeah, exactly. And fun places around the world too. I think rejuvenation is just so important.

Heather Moyse [01:03:07]:
I agree.

Claudia von Boeselager [01:03:07]:
Heather, it's been such a pleasure to have you on today. Thank you so much for taking the time. Such an inspiring story. And I look forward to reconnecting again, hopefully in the not too distant future.

Heather Moyse [01:03:17]:
Oh, awesome. Claudia, thank you very much. Thanks for having me on. Thank you.

Claudia von Boeselager [01:03:20]:
Such a pleasure.