Transcript

Claudia von Boeselager [00:03:54]:
Exactly. Beautiful. Ok, amazing. So let me kick off without further ado. My guest today is Dr. Harry Adelson. Dr. Adelson is a pioneering figure in the field of regenerative medicine and was one of the earliest adopters in the use of cell therapy for chronic musculoskeletal pain.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:04:16]:
Beginning his training in the regenerative injection therapy in 1998. Dr. Adelson opened dosser clinics in park City, Utah in 2002 and from day one, his practice has been 100% regenerative injection therapies for the treatment of musculoskeletal pain conditions. He has performed more than 7000 bone marrow and fat tissue cell therapy procedures, placing him among the most experienced in the world with the use of bone marrow cells for the treatment of pain. In 2017, Dr. Addison launched his flagship product, the full body stem cell makeover, the most comprehensive stem cell upgrade ever conceived. So excited to welcome you, Harry, onto the podcast. Welcome to the Longevity and Lifestyle podcast.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:05:06]:
Claudia, it's such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:05:09]:
I'm so delighted to have you on since we met almost two years ago, or I guess a year and a half ago now, and I've got you on the show as well to share the amazing work that you're doing. And I'd love to start off, Harry, with for people who might have heard the term stem cells, but they're like, what is it? And what is this hype? Can you explain exactly what stem cells are and why are they such an exciting area that you're working on?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:05:33]:
Sure. So first of all, we have stem cells in every tissue in our body, and their job, their role is to maintain the health of their microenvironment. So whenever you have healing after injury, so you have some sort of injury and then you have a healing response, that is a stem cell mediated event. The stem cells in your body are responsible for recognizing the damage has occurred and then triggering those cells to go into hyperhealing mode. They release proteins that fight invading microbes, reduce inflammation and signal the damaged tissue to in fact go into healing mode. So the whole concept with stem cell therapy is somebody has undergone some sort of tissue damage, whether it's from a single traumatic injury, or whether it's from multiple micro injuries, or just going through life and having garden variety osteoarthritis, degeneration of tissue. What we do is either we take stem cells from a part of your body where you still have a robust population, such as your bone marrow or fat, or we take it from birth tissue products, umbilical cord, amniotic membrane, placenta, that sort of thing. We concentrate these cells, we place them in the area of damage, tricks your body into thinking that it's been re injured, thereby launching your body's natural ability to heal itself.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:07:06]:
It's so fascinating as well. And I think some people, if they've had children and they've been introduced to the concept of freezing or keeping the stem cells from the umbilical cord or otherwise as well, are those then up for donation or you purchase them from different banks, or where do you get your hands on? Either from the person themselves, like you said, the bone marrow, the fat, but also these banks available of young, healthy babies, if you will, stem cells, is that right?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:07:37]:
Well, the simplest, of course, is just getting it from your own body. So that's taking stem cells from a person's bone marrow, from a person's fat. Clearly that's the easiest when you're talking about using birth tissue products you would love to use. You've had a child and you've banked their stem cells, their umbilical cord stem cells. Unfortunately, most of the laboratories that do the banking will only then release those stem cells to the child, not to the mother, but only to the child, and then only if they are undergoing a very small list of mostly childhood cancers, mostly juvenile cancers. So there are a very small number of laboratories that will release it to any family member, for whichever reason. But for the most part, when you're talking about banked stem cells from an umbilical cord, it's usually just to that child for these very specific cancers. Mostly where I get, like when I'm talking about using umbilical cord stem cells.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:08:45]:
Here in Dosieri clinics, we use laboratories that. So a woman gives birth in a hospital, and there's the baby, and then there's what are called the birth tissues, also called the afterbirth, which is the placenta, the umbilical cord and the amniotic membrane. When a woman gives birth in hospital, she's given a form and she's given three choices. Either she keeps those birth tissues for herself and to do whatever she wants with them, she throws them in the trash, or she has the option to donate them. In that case, the hospital takes possession of those birth tissues and has the option to sell them to laboratories. In that case, she also gives up essentially the right to her medical records in a redacted form so it doesn't contain her name. But if a laboratory buys the birth tissue, they also get to see her health records, vaccination records, that sort of thing. And the laboratory will then additionally do these very rigorous tissue sample testing to rule out communicable disease and that sort of thing.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:09:58]:
Then in these sort of FDA registered laboratories that goes through this very comprehensive rigmarole, and then they become ready to sell to doctors like me, who then can use them with patients.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:10:14]:
Now, thank you for elaborating on that. And I wonder, is there a difference in quality of the stem cells from birth tissue or like a newborn umbilical cord versus an older person's bone marrow? Because one would think with age, right, the quality might change, but I'd love to understand that a bit better.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:10:34]:
Well, the answer is for some things, yes. And for other things, we don't know. So if you are trying to use stem cells to, say, grow a kidney in a laboratory, for instance, which is not what I do, there's sort of like two main branches of stem cell medicine. There's tissue engineering and then there's regenerative medicine in tissue engineering, where you're like, growing a kidney or growing, theoretically, a meniscus for a knee or whatever it is in a laboratory. Yes. Birth tissue products are much younger, more robust, and it's much easier to grow out tissue types in a laboratory for what I do, which is regenerative medicine, where we just take the cells, inject them into the body, and then basically step back, let nature run its course. We don't really know for sure. We don't know which is superior.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:11:27]:
I can tell you from my own experience, because I've done regenerative medicine for 20 years. Started out with prolotherapy, then that morphed into plateletrich plasma, and since 2010. So for coming up on 14 years now, I've been using stem cells. Started out with bone marrow stem cells, then I went to bone marrow plus fat stem cells, and then just in this last year I've been using the birth tissue stem cells. So far I'm very happy with the outcomes that we're seeing, but I can't say with certainty that one is superior to the other.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:12:04]:
Yeah, no, it's interesting. Harry, can you share with people? I still remember from your presentation a year and a half ago your story, but how did you even end up in this space? And how did you become such a trailblazer for rejuvenate medicine for such a long time already?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:12:19]:
So what's the so, you know, when I was in a. My whole life revolved around rock climbing and I was training for a dream trip to France, which is the birthplace of modern sport climbing. And I did this cross through move in the gym and I felt this pop in my shoulder and I thought, oh, that's not good. So I saw a surgeon and he said, well, you've torn the cartilage in your shoulder. I can put a scope in there and cut away that piece of cartilage. It might help, but it might make it worse. And really we don't know unless we try it. And I thought he said, alternately we can inject it with steroid, which similarly probably will give you short term benefit, but it actually is going to potentially cause problems later in life because it further degrades the tissue.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:13:10]:
And I thought, boy, that's it, those are my options. So I found out about the predecessor to stem cell medicine, which was something called prolotherapy. And prolotherapy is the injection of natural substances to effectively trick your body into thinking that there's been a new injury without causing any tissue insults, thereby launching the body's natural healing cascade. And I tried that and it worked so well. My trip to France was splendid. My life path unfolded before me for years. I did prolotherapy and it took a bunch of treatments we'd have to do on average between six and twelve treatments once a month over a year, but we consistently got pretty good results. Then platelet rich plasma hit the scene, which is the same concept.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:13:57]:
But instead of using natural substances, we use a patient's own blood. Do we do a blood draw? We concentrate down the blood platelets, and we inject that. And platelets are what are directly responsible for signaling to your own stem cells in your body to go into hyperhealing mode. And I did that for a period of four years, and it worked significantly better than prolotherapy did. Then I had a patient in 2009 come to me, and she said, harry, I want you to put bone marrow stem cells into my knee. I'd been treating her over the years, and she had this bad knee injury, and I'd helped her, but never quite got her all the way there. And she was an engineer. She was actually an engineer for NASA.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:14:44]:
And she said, she put this stack of scientific journals down on my desk all at that time, 2009, it was all animal studies, the use of bone marrow stem cells for arthritis. And I said, laura, I don't know how to do that. And she said, well, learn. So I did, and it actually is not that hard. Bone marrow aspiration sounds very scary. It's actually quite easy to do and surprisingly not that painful. And so I started doing it in Claudia. The jump that I took from prolotherapy to PRP, when I went from PRP to bone marrow stem cells, it was that jump again.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:15:20]:
I knew this was the future of regenerative medicine, so I just put myself entirely in this world. And back then, in 2010, so few people had heard of it, I had to sort of burn this ship's approach. I wanted to just do stem cells, but the only people who had heard of it, I'm here in Park City, Utah. The only people who had heard of it back then were Wyoming cowboys, because they were having it done to their a. The veterinarians really were the first ones who started doing stem cell therapy. And they would take these very expensive workhorses to this veterinarian, and these horses were getting too old to work. And they take them to this guy, and he would do a sternal aspiration on them. He'd get underneath and take the bone marrow out of their sternum and inject it into their hooves, and they'd get two or three more years of work out of them.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:16:13]:
And these busted up old cowboys would say to this guy, well, can you do that to me? Because I got this back and I got this neck and I got this hip and the shoulder. And the guy would say, well, no, I can't because I'm a veterinarian. But there's a guy in Park City doing it. Now go to him. So those early years, that's who I was getting in here were these busted up old ranchers and wranglers, and cowboys loved it.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:16:36]:
The first movers, the first innovators, the ranchers and the cowboys. Well done. I love it.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:16:42]:
Well, because they saw it with their own eyes. They saw it with their own eyes. And there weren't the confines of insurance medicine because it's mostly veterinarian. And these are very expensive workhorses that they rely on. And these people are very pragmatic, like my farmers, for instance. If they have a piece of farm equipment break down, if the warranty covers it, great. But if the warranty doesn't cover it, they're still going to pay for it to get it fixed because they need it. Well, what's the most important piece of equipment on a farm? The farmer.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:17:19]:
Right. When I would get those guys, they're just motivated to get better because they need their bodies.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:17:26]:
Yeah, exactly. That's how they work and earn their income as well. So, Harry, can you share with people what are use cases? There might be people listening and. Hmm, is this for me? I've always had my shoulder injury from my tennis, or my knee has been bothering me, or my hip. Will this replace a hip replacement treatment? What are use cases that you're seeing? And can you explain some of the success journeys that you've seen as well?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:17:54]:
Sure. So the first thing I'll just sort of say to preface is that in the whole field of chronic musculoskeletal pain, which, by the way, is the number one leading cause of disability worldwide, it's a little known fact. I mean, it's something that it has tremendous economic impact, but it doesn't actually kill people. So it doesn't get nearly the research dollars that the big killers get, cardiovascular disease, cancer, that sort of thing. But there's tremendous global economic impact to chronic pain. So the thing is, conventional medicine has never really found a great approach to it. And part of it is because of how they look at it in conventional medicine. We're so obsessed with the exact diagnosis.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:18:48]:
And that's part of the problem is with chronic musculoskeletal pain, there rarely is one precise diagnosis. There's no way to figure out what exactly it is, and it doesn't even really matter that much. One of the things that we found is that when you look at diagnostic imaging, mris, or x rays, you would think that there would be a direct correlation between how much pain the person is experiencing and what their imaging looks like, when in fact the opposite has been found to be true. How bad your imaging looks in no way predicts whether or not you even have pain to begin with. You can have x rays or mris of people with terrible pain that look perfectly normal. Alternately, you can have x rays or mris that look awful, and the person has no pain at all. And so what does that sort of lead us to believe is that most of the pain is actually occurring on the microscopic level. And this concept of removing ourselves from the need to be able to see the problem, it's really hard for my patients, who are engineers, to wrap their mind around because they want to say, look, it says it right here.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:20:03]:
Well, that may or may not be the problem. What we think the majority of chronic pain from musculoskeletal structures is caused by, it's essentially a type of non healing wound. You have this microscopic connective tissue that's been either damaged from a single acute injury or over time, has degenerated from multiple insults. And if you were to do a punch biopsy, which is completely impractical, but if you were to look at this tissue under a microscope, you could see it's very irritated. You're growing new blood vessels, new irregularly formed blood vessels, and every time you grow a new blood vessel, you're growing a new sensory nerve along next to it. And then the other thing is that the sort of miracle fabric of your connective tissue loses its miracle properties. Connective tissue stretches just the right amount in each direction. Well, when you have this sort of scarring effect of chronic damage, you lose that miracle fabric properties.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:21:10]:
It stretches too much in some directions and not enough in the others. And those nerves that pass through, you're constantly firing pain signals, and then you have these irregularly formed blood vessels that are actually. You lose the ability to bring oxygen to the area and metabolic waste away. So the first thing I tell people is, the most important thing is forget everything you think you know. When it comes to chronic pain, what you see on the x ray, what you see on the MRI, what you're being told may have something to do with it. It may have nothing to do with it. I'm much more interested in what people are telling me, how they describe the evolution of their pain and then how they describe where it is occurring, what sorts of activities make it worse, but I don't know, I'm just sort of blathering on. So why don't you ask me another question? Because I'm.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:22:04]:
I think it's great. And I'm, I'm actually thinking of a few people. I'm like, I have to send them to you because one is a friend's mother who had a back surgery that wasn't rightly done. And so she has this chronic pain. When she stands, when she sits, when she lies down, it's like this continuous. It's so many years as, I mean, I know. And a friend's husband, as well as this chronic pain issue. I think it's interesting.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:22:30]:
I was at a conference recently, and Dr. Michelle Weiner, I don't know if you're familiar with her, but she's doing ketamine assisted therapy for chronic pain as well, obviously coming from a different perspective. And it is so hard. And I think that. Thank you for expanding on the fact that you won't always see it in an x ray and an MRI.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:22:48]:
And it's heartbreaking because these are the people who are being told that it's in their head. Look, your imaging is perfectly normal. Well, so what?

Claudia von Boeselager [00:22:57]:
Yeah, exactly. So can you talk about the procedure in itself and also help people get their head around? Like, so you're injecting these stem cells, and how does it make it all better? So could you walk through it?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:23:09]:
Yeah, sure. So what makes my center a little bit different is that I do pretty much all my procedures under iv sedation. So I have an anesthesiologist or a nurse anesthetist, put people to sleep because these are quite uncomfortable and to go through, and there's really no reason to be awake. What I found is that in the early years, the iv sedation was optional, so people would either elect to do it or they'd decide not to. And a lot of times people, I think either they didn't want to spend the extra money or they were worried that I would think they were a wimp or, I'm not sure, but I would talk to them a year later. And the ones who had elected to not be sedated frequently, they were kind of irritated to speak with me, and I sort of noticed this sort of irate tone, and then I'd say, well, how are you doing? Oh, it didn't work. Oh, really? Okay. Well, can you play tennis now? Yeah, I'm playing tennis four days a week now.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:24:12]:
Oh, really? Because it says here that you couldn't play tennis before because the pain. Oh, yeah. Well, I started doing yoga, and I'm pretty sure that's what did it. And I'd say, and finally I put it together that they were angry at me because I tortured them. So then I just started putting everyone to sleep, and I found that never happened again. People were always. Even the people I didn't help were happy to talk to me. So I like to put people to sleep.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:24:37]:
Most places don't do that, but I just find that it's much better, especially if you're doing the autologous. And the word autologous means donor and recipient are the same person. So that's bone marrow stem cells, fat stem cells. Allogenic means donor and recipient are different people. So that's birth tissue products. So when I'm doing a procedure, I tend to put people to sleep for either. If we're doing autologous, people come to my center, they meet with me, they meet with anesthesia, they meet with my nurse, they get on the table. I go to sleep, I do a bone marrow aspiration, I do a fat aspiration.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:25:11]:
We concentrate the stem cells from the bone marrow, we isolate the stem cells from the fat, and then we inject them. Whether it's into intervertebral discs, whether it's into the epidural space and the hips, whatever. When we're doing the allogenic, which is the birth tissue products, people go to sleep. We jump right into the injection even then, especially, I mean, if we're just doing someone's hip or knee, maybe we don't, won't put them to sleep because it's so simple. But we tend to do big treatments here, and we do a lot of intravertebral discs. When you inject somebody in the intravertebral disc, I've literally had special forces navy seals reduced to tears. It's awful. It's the most painful thing, so there's no reason to do it awake.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:25:55]:
So that's what it looks like. I mean, it's really just an injection, unless you're doing the tissue aspiration, and then people wake up and the painful part is over, they're a little bit sore, but not bad, and then we just wait. This is the opposite of a steroid injection. When you do a steroid injection, if it's properly indicated and it's done correctly, the person will have immediate pain relief. That lasts anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months, and then it wears off. This is the opposite. This takes a couple of months to work. Like, I don't expect any improvement until we're a couple of months out, usually.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:26:34]:
And the reason for that is because it's like planting a garden. If you plant a garden, you got to wait for the plants to grow to get the benefit right. So we're injecting these cells with the hope that it's going to trigger the healing of the microscopic tissue. And that takes time, and it takes time to get the benefit from it.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:27:00]:
Which is so phenomenal to think about it. It's like tricking the body into thinking, okay, major healing needed in this area. And then it just recreates what essentially wasn't able to previously because of the microscopic tissue. So, I mean, it's so phenomenal. I think it's so exciting as well. Can you share some of your favorite sort of success stories, what you've seen.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:27:25]:
If you look across the board, I've been doing it a long time. We keep very close track of people that we treat, and I'm going to drop some numbers. This is not intended to be proof. This has not been proven to work. It's not formally accepted into the scientific literature. But I can tell you from my own personal experience treating people here, somewhere around 70% of the people that we speak with at the one year mark are happy. And by happy, I don't mean 100% pain relief, but they've had enough relief that they're glad that they did it and they don't feel like they need another treatment at that time. They're probably going to do another one.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:28:08]:
I'll probably hear back from them in anywhere from three to six years. Average is four or five, because nothing lasts forever. Right. Time marches on. About 20% of the people we treat have had a little bit of improvement, but they'd like a little more. So maybe we talk about doing another treatment. About 10% of people we treat, we just don't help at all. It's a dud.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:28:32]:
But neither have they been made worse, but they haven't been made better. And I hate that. I'm very competitive. I hate to lose. It bums me out. But nothing works all the time, not even physician assisted suicide. I mean, things don't work sometimes. As far as my favorite cases, the two things that I probably love to treat the most are people with dehydrated lumbar discs.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:29:03]:
So that's called desiccated discs. So that's like my young, healthy weightlifter who's been doing deadlifts. And they get a pop and severe pain anywhere from three days to three weeks. Happens like once or twice a year. Over time, it gets a little more frequent. And you look at their MRI and their discs are white, black, and that's a dehydrated disc. Those are people conventional medicine? All they have to offer is pain meds and fusion over here and nothing in between. We do quite well with that.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:29:44]:
That's something. I love treating that, partially because the conventional options stink so much, but partially because we don't help everyone. But we've helped quite a few people with that. The other is post whiplash syndrome. That's another one that conventional medicine has very little to offer except pain medication, muscle relaxers, people who've had either a single traumatic whiplash injury or multiple small ones. That's something that I love treating just because we do quite well with it.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:30:18]:
Yeah, because, I mean, it's chronic pain, so it affects people in their day to day lives. Maybe it impacts their sleep. And so where do you see sort of the future of stem cells? And I was reading, actually, recent research from Cambridge University was a small early stage trial, but injecting stem cells into patients'brain in MS and multiple sclerosis cases, which seems really promising. So how do you see the development in the field of stem cell therapy happening?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:30:45]:
If you pick a condition, you will find people studying the use of stem cells along with it. I keep it in my lane for my practice. I just do musculoskeletal pain and spine pain, joints, that sort of thing. I keep it in the road. I don't claim to go outside of that, but it's amazing. Like, you look at any of the neurologic conditions you mentioned, MS, any of those neurologic degenerative conditions, that's another one where conventional medicine has really very little to offer, and the little bit that they have generally is wrought with side effects. So, I mean, it just seems like, yeah, it is really a rich area for tremendous strides to be taken.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:31:35]:
And let's talk about, I've had, obviously, Amy on the podcast. So your business partner and friend, Dr. Amy Killin. Right. And I'd love if you could share a bit about this incredible top to toe rejuvenation therapy, that makeover that you guys offer. So can you share that with my.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:31:52]:
So, you know, I told you about the cowboys back when I started doing this. And these guys, they literally had arthritis through their entire, their, their whole spine and both hips and both shoulders and both knees. So back then, I would do these big treatments on these guys, and entirely kidding. I used to call it full body stem cell makeover. And then Dave Asprey became a patient, and I started getting his followers. And then Ben Greenfield became a patient. I started getting his followers, and I was getting people in here who were very interested in longevity, very interested in being very physically active late into life, because that's, know, the key to a long, healthy life is maintaining that high degree of functionality. And so it was around that time that I met Amy, and I was doing some cosmetic back then, but I've never enjoyed doing it.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:32:47]:
So I said, amy, like, why don't you do the cosmetic part so I don't have to do it? And then we can work together side by side. And that was close to eight years ago. And around that time is when, you know, Dave at first and I started getting people who would say, well, can't you just do my whole body in a single sitting just for sort of preventive purposes? And I thought, yeah, sure. I've been doing it for years with these, you know, I said, amy, what if you and I, we just do, like, all of our injections all at once? And so it's been seven years, I think, since she and I have been working together doing that. In the last year, we've switched over to using primarily umbilical cord stem cells because we used to do it with a large quantity of bone marrow and fat stem cells. In this last year, we've switched to using 100 million umbilical cord stem cells, which is like a whopping dose. I mean, that's what normally people go to south or Central America to get that kind of dose, which we can do here. It's just a little more expensive because you see, when you go to central or things that what they can do there that we can't do here in the US is they can culture, expand the stem cells, they can grow the cells in a laboratory, which we're not able to do here.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:34:06]:
Personally, I don't really want that done because we don't know the long term effects of using those culture expanded cells here in the US, we can use umbilical cord cells. They just have to be what we call naive. They're fresh frozen from the umbilical cord, not grown out in a lab. So it's a little more expensive to achieve those very high doses. But I personally think it's preferable. But I think it's preferable.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:34:42]:
So what we do is we have this high dose. We split it between Amy and I, about 80. I get about 80%. She gets about 20%. I do my normal thing, which is the full spine base of the skull down to the tailbone, both sides. Then flip the person over both shoulders, both elbows, both wrists and thumbs, both hips, both knees, both ankles and great toe. While I'm doing that, Amy does the scalp, and that is to thicken the hair follicles. It's not going to make you grow hair follicles where you no longer have hair follicles.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:35:18]:
But if you have hair follicles that are growing sort of thin, wispy hair, it will thicken those hair follicles. She injects it into the skin of the face to improve elasticity and hydration of the skin. And then last, in women, she does the vagina to improve elasticity and hydration of the vaginal tissue. And in men, she'll inject the penis to improve microcirculation, because erectile dysfunction is essentially a vascular condition.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:35:45]:
Yeah. So I think it's absolutely phenomenal. I know Amy had a funny story with Dave aspiry filming her while she was doing it. She was a little bit taken back by it. But do you think, how are you seeing these guys after a certain while, they're saying, okay, I feel like 15 years younger, 30 years younger. Have they been measuring it at all? Were they kind of tracking their progress and their biological age before and after? Do you have any data on that?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:36:14]:
I don't have any data on it. I can just tell you what people have told me, because we follow up with just sort of people explaining how they, you know, we. We follow up quite closely with that. And there's two types of people who go through full body stem cell makeover. There's people who have lots of pain complaints to begin with. Those people, it's a little bit easier to actually judge because you start out with a lot of pain, and then either it gets better or it doesn't. People who go into it purely sort of for the longevity play, it's a little harder to measure because if you don't have a headache and you take aspirin, they're already doing pretty well. We have had people report different sort of positive side effects.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:37:01]:
When I can tell you my own experience, because I went through it and I didn't have a great deal of pain going through it to begin with. And I can tell you that I didn't realize how stiff and sore I really was until I went ahead and did it. I'll tell you my age. I'm 55. I got a late start. I've got little kids, so I'm super active with my little kids. And I was like, wow. When I got about two years out, I felt more fluid.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:37:34]:
I felt like I moved better in space. Just everything about me sort of functioned better. I was very happy I did it.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:37:40]:
That's amazing. And so what excites you most about the future of stem cell therapy and what are you looking forward to also maybe incorporating in your practice? Will you continue, obviously, doing as is, or are there any new areas that you would look to get into?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:37:54]:
Well, I think probably just from a musculoskeletal perspective, it's not something that I'm going to do, but I think this concept of being able to do entire knee replacements with your own knee that has been grown in a lab like an actual your own knee, I think that is just blows my mind. It's going to be in our lifetime, Claudia. We're going to be doing that in our.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:38:21]:
It's just, I think now with the convergence of technology, science and medical breakthroughs, what's possible, and the Biocomputing and things like this too, it's the models again, when I'm at conferences and I'm seeing all these computational models, they've calculated that this is going to be possible, et cetera. I mean, watch this space, Harry. We're all going to be ten years old before we know to aging backwards. I love it. Harry, if you could, or when you live to 150 years old, I should say with excellent health, how are you going to spend your time?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:38:54]:
Well, right now, like I said, I got a late start, so I've got little kids at home, so I am doing everything I can to just spend every minute with them as I possibly can. And hopefully it'll be hanging out with their kids and so on. It has brought me so much pleasure. Being a dad is the most amazing thing. I just am in love with this journey.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:39:20]:
I know, they're beautiful. I've got two monkeys myself that are thankfully asleep now at this time. But yeah, they're a lot of fun. But definitely the stem cells for that stiffness is very helpful. I definitely noticed that as well. Harry, for my listeners interested in researching and understanding the stem cell therapies and for chronic pain as well, what would be some good resources or online resources websites that you would recommend to start with?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:39:47]:
Well, my website, I have a 60 minutes Nick Nanton film just describing my journey learning stem cells. I also have a decent little book that's on. You can get that on my website. It you can download. It talks about the adventures that I had traveling through Central and South America, learning from the maestros. So that's just from my website, which is josericlinics.com. Both of those are free. I very much like Neil Riordan's book rising Tide.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:40:19]:
I think it's just called a rising tide, and it's about his journey in stem cell medicine. I mean, he's the maestro. He's been at it the longest. It's certainly the sort of culture expanded world of stem cells. I think that's a good place to start. And then for people who want to take it further, the cell surgical network has an annual, for any Doctors listening, they have an annual conference in June in Las Vegas. I speak there most every year. But that's a great, it's like a two or three day meeting, great professional meeting for people who want to get into performing stem cells themselves.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:41:03]:
Very exciting. And where can people follow what you're up to, your social media handles, or where do you like to know?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:41:09]:
My website has a lot of stuff, and then, of course, just on Instagram. I'm not terribly active, but. Harry Adelson, beautiful.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:41:18]:
And we'll link everything in the show notes as well. Harry, do you have a final ask or recommendation or any parting thoughts or message for my audience today?

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:41:29]:
Yeah. Just be kind to your body. I can tell with, you can imagine with what I do for work, listening to people talk about either the small, seemingly insignificant decisions that they made that now have huge repercussions or the big traumatic injuries. Just be kind to your body because we only have this one for this go round, and you just want to make it last as best you can. And go easy. Go easy on this body because it's our spaceship through this journey.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:42:07]:
Yes, exactly. Beautiful. Harry, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your wisdom in this exciting area. It's been such a pleasure.

Dr. Harry Adelson [00:42:13]:
Thank you. Claudia.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:42:15]:
Beautiful. Harry, thank you so much for your time.