Transcript
Dr Steven Gundry [00:00:00]:
A single cell organism can completely take control of our behavior.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:00:06]:
The microbiome is the puppet master, and we are merely the puppet.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:00:13]:
All addictive behavior is actually driven by the microbiome. Once you understand that these guys are pulling the strings, that actually gives you hope that if we manipulate them by changing our foods, by introducing bacteria that are good guys rather than bad guys, driving the bad guys out by literally starving them to death, then you can change some of what we would assume were horrible. Psychological depression and anxiety is directly related to dysbiotic microbiome.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:01:07]:
Are you ready to boost your longevity and unlock peak performance? Welcome to the Longevity and lifestyle podcast.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:01:12]:
I'm your host, Claudia Fumberselaga, longevity and peak performance coach.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:01:22]:
My guest today is Doctor Stephen Gundry, a visionary in human nutrition and health. With over four decades of medical experience, including pioneering work in cardiac surgery, doctor Gundry now guides individuals towards vibrant health and longevity through the power of nutrition. As director and founder of the International Heart and Lung Institute and the center for Restorative Medicine, Doctor Stephen Gundry's mission is to empower people through simple dietary changes. Doctor Gundry's insights challenge conventional wisdom, offering new hope for optimal health. Please enjoy.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:01:56]:
Welcome to the longevity and lifestyle podcast, Doctor Stephen Gundry. Such a pleasure to have you on, and I'd love to start with an important topic, the gut microbiome. And as listeners to the podcast will know, but it's still so important to really understand the importance of the gut microbiome. Can you expand on that for people perhaps new to the topic?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:02:20]:
Sure. Let me just start with saying that 2500 years ago, the father of medicine, Hippocrates, said that all disease begins in the gut. And I've been spending 25 years now trying to figure out how he knew that.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:02:42]:
Good question.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:02:44]:
And he was right. And with every passing year, particularly with the completion of the Human microbiome project, which completed in 2017, we were able.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:02:59]:
To realize that there are at least.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:03:04]:
Ten, I'm sorry, 100 trillion bacteria alone in our gut. Now, the gut technically also includes the mouth, the nose, the swallowing tube, stomach, all the way down to your rear end.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:03:23]:
We could further amplify that.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:03:26]:
I like to call it the, rather than the microbiome, the holobiome.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:03:31]:
And I've claimed that in other books.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:03:34]:
And that should include what we now know, is that these bacteria not only live in our gut, but they live in, obviously, our lungs. They live in any organ that has an outside entrance. So, for instance, we now know that there's a breast microbiome. We know there's vaginal microbiome. We know now that there's a placental microbiome. There's. Even now we know that the amniotic fluid, which we swore was sterile, has its own microbiome. And paper last week suggested that men with infertility issues have a semen microbiome that produces much higher levels of acid, which immobilize sperm.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:04:25]:
And that, you know, if you have an infertility issue, we should look probably no further than your semen microbiome. So we also have a microbiome on our skin. We have a microbiome cloud around us, very much like the peanuts cartoon character.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:04:45]:
I think it was forgotten the little.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:04:47]:
Kid'S name, but he had a cloud.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:04:48]:
Charlie Brown around him.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:04:50]:
No, that was the other one. And it wasn't Linus. It was another little kid.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:04:54]:
Anyhow, one kind of fun thing is.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:04:58]:
There'S suggestion that the idea of personal space that you and I will only get just so close to each other is that our microbiome bumps into your.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:05:10]:
Microbiome and we check each other out.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:05:15]:
In fact, there's actually one paper that suggests that the reason kissing is. Seems to be a universal human tendency, is we are having our microbiome decide whether they are compatible with your microbiome.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:05:31]:
So we're all run by bacteria. Essentially.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:05:34]:
We are run by bacteria. And I'm glad you said that because.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:05:39]:
I made kind of that bold claim.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:05:42]:
In my current book, gut check. And I'm writing my next book, expanding on that. Sorry. Everything that happens to us happens because of, or because of a change in our microbiome.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:06:00]:
And the more, the longer we find out what these guys do and the.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:06:07]:
Control they exert on all aspects of us, including how we think, how we eat, our longevity, our health span, the more it's. It all comes down to these guys. And Hippocrates was right. And it's not voodoo. It's.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:06:24]:
It's science.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:06:26]:
Sorry.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:06:29]:
So one question before we dig in further with the micron. Have you figured out how Hippocrates knew that? It's all in the gut. Any idea?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:06:38]:
No, I don't. I think, you know, and it's interesting, I have a, one of my patients is a sanskrit scholar, a buddhist scholar, and he's gotten really into this. And recently he came to me, he says, you know, I've looked at. I read Sanskrit, I've looked at the Buddha's teaching.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:06:58]:
And one of the things that might.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:06:59]:
Surprise you, Buddha and Hippocrates were contemporaries, obviously separated. And there's no evidence that they knew.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:07:08]:
Each other, but he said, he translated from Sanskrit, that enlightenment begins in the intestines. And you go, whoa, really?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:07:23]:
How do these guys know this stuff? Maybe their gut bacteria were talking to them, and maybe they had a better radio receiver than most of us. Yeah, but, yeah, with each passing day, more and more of this becomes evident.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:07:42]:
So, I mean, literally, with each passing day.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:07:46]:
So can you share with my audience people? You know, babies are born, and they've already been exposed to the microbiome from the placenta. And as we go through life, especially life nowadays, where there's typically more harm than good from radiation and exposure, chemicals, etcetera, what's all in the environment, and that good bacteria, one would think, is deteriorating. So what are some things that people should be aware of? What are some of the modalities that you recommend in order to maintain, repair this microbiome? Obviously, it will depend, I assume, on which microbiome we're referring to, but can you share some strategies?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:08:31]:
Yeah, that's one of the things we've now uncovered, particularly, for instance, let's take autism, for example. The autistic brain has gotten that way primarily because of a miscommunication between the fetal microbiome and the developing neurons in the brain. And there's sadly evidence that the placental microbiome and even the amniotic fluid microbiome should be educating, even in fetal life.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:09:13]:
Neural development, not only neurodevelopment, but immune system development.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:09:18]:
And it looks like that these changes occur literally before mom is aware of it. Now, this is not throwing a guilt ball at anybody. Mom didn't know that this was going on.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:09:34]:
I was a children's heart surgeon, congenital.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:09:37]:
Heart surgeon, and mom didn't know that there might be a virus that was infecting her child, that caused hole in the heart to develop. So nobody's throwing a guilt ball at anybody. But we know that autism was incredibly rare, even 50 years ago, and it's a very modern phenomenon. One of ten kids, maybe more, are in the autism spectrum disorder. So it's huge.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:10:11]:
So you have to go, what in the world happened?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:10:14]:
So, long story short, first of all, we overuse antibiotics. I think most people are aware of that, and yet it happens continuously. Most of the things we come down with a runny nose, a scratchy throat, whatever aches and pains are viruses. And sorry, we don't have antibiotics against viruses. We have antivirals. And yet not a day passes that somebody is given an antibiotic for their scratchy throat or their runny nose.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:10:52]:
Very yeah.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:10:55]:
Recently I take care of a very.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:10:59]:
Famous actress that.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:11:03]:
Was pregnant, and she.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:11:06]:
Came down with the sniffles in her third trimester. And her obstetrician gave her a round of antibiotics.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:11:14]:
And I'm going, what the heck? I mean, I couldn't believe this.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:11:21]:
I just.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:11:24]:
For instance, just on the.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:11:27]:
Same thing, we know that normally we.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:11:30]:
Get a wonderful dose of the microbiome from our mother when we come out the birth canal. I told Maria Shriver that her mother took a crap on her, which is true. Thank you, mom. And the mother inoculates us with per set of bacteria. And as I've talked before, our mitochondria, which are the energy producing organelles, are.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:12:02]:
Actually ancient engulfed bacteria.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:12:04]:
And we only inherit the DNA to make mitochondria from our mother.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:12:11]:
And just to talk about hippocrates, I think it's not without reason that the.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:12:19]:
Reason the mother gives us our microbiome through the birth canal is the mother gave us our mitochondria, which are ancient bacteria. And these two guys talk to each.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:12:32]:
Other and they're kind of like the sisterhood and sisters. I have two daughters and constantly talk.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:12:39]:
And so these, and we've actually learned.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:12:43]:
The language of this.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:12:45]:
Crosstalk so, number one, you don't want to screw that up with antibiotics. Number two, we know that kids who were born with cesarean section don't get that set of microbes. And if you look at their microbiome in their gut, it's actually all skin.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:13:03]:
Flora that they, yeah, and they have.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:13:07]:
Skin flora for at least six months before they begin to acquire more bacteria. And speaking of malpractice, what should happen with cesarean sections?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:13:21]:
And don't get me wrong, cesarean sections.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:13:24]:
Can be life saving for both the mother and the baby.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:13:27]:
So against c sections.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:13:30]:
But we should be taking a swab, put it in the vagina of the mother, and after the baby, immediately after the baby is born, we should be swabbing the mouth and the nose and the skin of the baby with this vaginal swab. And just two years ago, I had an obstetrician. I told the mother, now make sure, because it was a scheduled c section, make sure that he does that. And he said, that's ridiculous, that, you know, that's voodoo, that's hocus pocus.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:14:05]:
And I had to write a prescription.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:14:08]:
For him to do that.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:14:11]:
Wow.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:14:12]:
Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:14:12]:
And it's like, well done for doing it.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:14:16]:
Yeah.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:14:16]:
But I mean, sadly, the average practicing physician is about 20 years behind current research. How do I know that? I was lucky to be involved in organization in the United States called the Institute for Healthcare Improvement, which was founded by Don Berman from Boston. And he was a academic pediatrician who noticed that practicing pediatricians seemed to be.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:14:46]:
About 20 years behind current research.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:14:51]:
And so he founded an organization where we were all invited from various fields to look into current knowledge and where the current practice was. And I was chosen in cardiology and cardiac surgery. And he was absolutely right. When we went around, even to academic institutions and looked at the level of.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:15:14]:
Practice was about 20 years behind current knowledge.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:15:19]:
And is it lack of time, if I'm into it, like, a lot of.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:15:24]:
It is a lack of. The average GP over in England and the average family medicine doctor here in the United States has about eight minutes per patient. And that eight minutes is basically spent renewing prescriptions for antibiotics.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:15:49]:
And they really, sadly, don't have the.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:15:54]:
Time and sometimes the interest to catch up. And again, so much of this area.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:16:02]:
If you had asked me, I've been.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:16:04]:
Doing this part of my life for 25 years now, and if you had.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:16:08]:
Asked me 20 years ago what I.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:16:11]:
Thought about leaky gut, I probably would have told you it was pseudoscience. But thanks to work by Alessio Fazano, who's now at Harvard, a pediatric gastroenterologist, we know, number one, it's science. It's real. Intestinal permeability is real, and we can measure it. We can measure the degree of leaky gut. And in my work, we can watch it go away, we can watch it repair, which is pretty exciting. Yes, that's why I do it.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:16:46]:
But, yeah, I mean, we.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:16:50]:
I would have thought it was pseudoscience.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:16:51]:
And I. And you were mentioning off camera, doctor.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:16:55]:
Dale Bradison and I have become good friends through the years, and we actually talk all the time. And it continues to amaze us that much of the work that he does and I do, and David Perlmutter, just.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:17:13]:
To drop another name, is looked on.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:17:19]:
As fanciful, magical thinking and, you know, and quackery.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:17:26]:
And it's like, oh, my gosh, come on, read the.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:17:32]:
Read the literature, folks.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:17:33]:
I mean, I've got 633 references in gut check, and I didn't make this stuff up.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:17:43]:
And that's the sad truth of it, is the default is doubt and criticism and quackery and shaming versus saying, interesting perspective. Let me also spend time and look at the research as well, and dig into it and see what's there. And then obviously, you're working with patients, so you have real life testimonials of actually people whose lives you've helped and changed as well, right?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:18:08]:
Yeah.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:18:08]:
I see patients six days a week. After I get off with you this morning, I'll see my first patient. And I see patients on Saturdays and Sundays. Wow, really? And I don't need to, but in fact, I do need to because, number one, I get to see what I would have considered. Miracles happen every day. But I learn a great deal from my patients.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:18:34]:
And let me give you an example.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:18:37]:
A number of years ago, probably 20 years ago, we measure vitamin D levels on all of our patients every three months.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:18:45]:
And I saw two elderly people, couple.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:18:50]:
Who were in their late seventies, first.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:18:52]:
Time, and their vitamin D levels were.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:18:56]:
Around 270 nanograms per milliliter. To put some perspective, most physicians are taught that 60 or 80 nanograms per milliliter is the upper limit of normal. If you go above 80, it's toxic vitamin D toxicity.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:19:17]:
And so here are these two fairly.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:19:20]:
Healthy looking people sitting opposite me who have vitamin D levels of 276.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:19:27]:
And first of all, I'm looking at.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:19:29]:
Them, I'm going, why aren't they dead, number one?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:19:34]:
And I go.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:19:38]:
You have very high vitamin D levels. They say, oh, yeah, we take a.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:19:43]:
Lot of vitamin D. I said, well, why do you do that?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:19:49]:
And they said, oh, well, it's a longevity vitamin.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:19:53]:
And I'm going, what?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:19:55]:
And so vitamin D is claimed, if you have too much, it can cause kidney stones, it can cause kidney failure, it can cause numbness in fingers and toes. And I'm going, any kidney stones?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:20:09]:
No, why?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:20:10]:
And I'm looking at their kidney results, and they're perfectly. Any numbness? Fingers?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:20:15]:
No, why?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:20:16]:
I said, well, you know, you ought to be dead. And they said, why do you say that? I said, because you have toxic levels. And they said, who says?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:20:26]:
And I said, I was trained.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:20:28]:
That. They said, you don't read the literature, do you? And I'm going, I like to think I really do read the literature.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:20:35]:
Yeah. I said, but no, I haven't read.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:20:38]:
About vitamin D. They said, well, you know, sonny, why don't you catch up? And so I read the literature, and lo and behold, they're right. And it's like, wow, thank you for teaching me this. And yet, to this day, I still see patients. About 80% of my patients are autoimmune patients whose rheumatologists tell them, oh, my gosh, your vitamin D level is toxic. Doctor Gundry's trying to kill you. Or I have a cancer practice.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:21:09]:
And their oncologists will say, oh, my.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:21:12]:
Gosh, your vitamin D level is too high. He's trying to kill you.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:21:15]:
And yet, the University of California, San Diego, which has one of the biggest.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:21:19]:
Vitamin D research units in the United States, says that the average American should be taking 9600 international units of vitamin D, three a day, and I take ten. And they have never seen vitamin D toxicity. Up to 40,000 units a day.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:21:42]:
Wow.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:21:43]:
Up to 40,000.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:21:45]:
40,000. I have some of my autoimmune patients on 45,000 international units a day.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:21:51]:
Wow. For a while.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:21:53]:
So explain, would you agree with their statement that it's a longevity drug?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:21:59]:
Oh, absolutely. I wrote about this in the longevity paradox. It turns out that people who have the highest vitamin D levels live the longest and have the best health span. And it gets back to the gut.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:22:14]:
It all gets back to the gut. It turns out that we have.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:22:20]:
The lining of the gut is at.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:22:23]:
Least the size of a tennis court.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:22:26]:
There's a physician in the UK who, doctor Keith Scott Mumby thinks it's two tennis courts.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:22:37]:
Great.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:22:38]:
So that tennis court is only one.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:22:42]:
Cell thick, and it is the only.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:22:45]:
Thing that separates our gut microbiome and everything we swallow from the rest of us. And if you look at experimental animals.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:22:56]:
We know that aging and ultimately death is predicated on this one cell thick.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:23:06]:
Wall beginning to break down and become porous.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:23:11]:
And as that wall breaks down, aging and death ensues.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:23:17]:
In fact, it's incredibly predictable.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:23:19]:
It's like the hordes at the gate.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:23:23]:
And as so if that wall is.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:23:25]:
Intact, then aging does not occur.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:23:28]:
And so what's interesting is we have a lot of stem cells in this wall, because this wall is constantly being changed over, it's constantly being attacked.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:23:41]:
And so we have a nice collection.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:23:43]:
Of stem cells to replace the damaged.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:23:47]:
Pieces of the wall. What's fascinating is these stem cells are.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:23:52]:
Was incredibly sensitive to vitamin D. And if vitamin D is low, even though there's holes in the wall, the stem cells just kind of sit there and twiddle their thumbs and go, what do you want me to do about it? When you do, vitamin D literally pushes these stem cells to differentiate and repair the holes. And that's one of the things that struck me early on in my autoimmune practice, is that all these people who walked in with autoimmune diseases had very low vitamin DS. And as we got their vitamin ds up and up and up, we could measure the holes in the wall, repairing so and so. Yeah, it's amazing. Vitamin D is a longevity drug. And I learned that from two elderly patients thank you very much.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:24:43]:
Appreciate it.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:24:43]:
We can learn from everyone. So we were discussing before, and I'd love to continue the conversation with, I think, also for people listening, wondering. There's different gut microbiome tests. Some physicians don't even offer gut microbiome tests. Some are like, do I even need to do the test? Should I just start healing myself? Where should people start? If they think that or they know that their gut microbiome is a bit off? What should be the first step, would you recommend?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:25:12]:
Well, I'm one of those physicians who thinks that a gut microbiome test is a waste of money. The reason for that is it is merely a snapshot of your gut microbiome. And your gut microbiome changes constantly based on the food you eat, among other things. And so if you wanted a polaroid picture of your gut microbiome that day, go ahead and do it.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:25:44]:
I've had the pleasure of getting to.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:25:46]:
Know some gut microbiome researchers at University of California, San Diego, who are mitochondrial experts, and they laugh their heads off that anybody would actually get a gut microbiome test, because it's so useless.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:26:01]:
Now, having said that, I have a.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:26:05]:
Number of patients who walk through the door with their gut microbiome test, and there have been innumerable gut microbiome tests.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:26:13]:
Looking at changing the gut microbiome.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:26:16]:
And I can say, and I've written about this, that most people have a.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:26:23]:
Real lack of species of bacteria that.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:26:29]:
Make short chain fatty acids. The ultimate short chain fatty acid is called butyrate. And butyrate is generated by butyrate producing bacteria. And there are a number of them. I write about them in the book. And if you look at people with issues, one of the things that's striking for most of these people is they lack butyrate producing bacteria. Interestingly enough, I even surprise Dale Bredesen.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:27:07]:
While I was writing gut check.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:27:10]:
We're uncovering why this genetic mutation, the apoe four gene, which affects 30% of.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:27:18]:
People, is mischievous in creating Alzheimer's.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:27:23]:
And one of the things that I discovered while researching gut check is that.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:27:29]:
This gene, this mutation, doesn't allow the.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:27:34]:
Growth of butyrate producing bacteria in the guts of the people who carry this gene.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:27:41]:
Well, I have a single.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:27:43]:
Yeah, well, and again, 30% of people don't. So one of the things that I.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:27:48]:
Do with all of my epoe four s is I now start them on.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:27:54]:
Butyrate producing bacteria, and you can get them, you can buy them, and they're fairly inexpensive because, yeah, we now know that. So butyrate is, is the holy grail of keeping your brain happy, among other things. And so here was a missing link that gets back again, right, to hippocrates, that all disease begins in the gut. Here it comes again. And you go, well, of course, you know, that's. He was right again. So, yeah, so that is another piece of this puzzle. Now, the other thing which was so.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:28:34]:
Surprising to a lot of people, including me, is we've known that these gut.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:28:42]:
Bacteria normally love to eat fiber, soluble.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:28:48]:
Fiber, and they can take soluble fiber.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:28:53]:
And eat it and then produce these, what are now called postbiotics.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:29:00]:
If you want to say bacterial poop.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:29:02]:
That'S fine with me.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:29:05]:
They make these postbiotics, among which are these short chain fatty acids, butyrate.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:29:11]:
So they have to have precursors to do this. But what was fascinating is there's two great researchers at Stanford, the Sonneberg husband.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:29:22]:
And wife team, who are, they're microbiome experts, and can we started this program.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:29:31]:
They're very depressed that we will never, ever get our microbiome back to the way it should be. We should have a teeming tropical rainforest of 10,000 different species, all of which are interconnected.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:29:51]:
And if you look at the western people.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:29:57]:
We'Re a wasteland, we're a desert in terms of, like, a hunter gatherer. And they're very depressed that we can never get this back. I actually have a little more hope than they do. But they did a great experiment I.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:30:13]:
Think everyone should know about.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:30:16]:
So they took people and they gave them a lot of prebiotic fiber.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:30:23]:
Soluble fiber in you, by the way.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:30:27]:
Inulin's in asparagus, it's in artichokes, it's in Radicchio, the chicory family, belgian endive.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:30:35]:
Good stuff. So they gave it to volunteers and a lot of it.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:30:41]:
And they looked at their gut microbiome biodiversity. In other words, the more species in general, the better.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:30:50]:
The less species, the worse.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:30:52]:
And then they looked at markers of.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:30:53]:
Inflammation, and lo and behold, their species biodiversity didn't improve and their inflammation markers didn't improve.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:31:03]:
And they go, what the heck? We're feeding all these guys exactly what they need.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:31:09]:
So then they said, well, hmm, let's.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:31:13]:
Do the same experiment. Let's give them all this prebiotic fiber. But this other group, we're going to have them eat fermented foods. In this case, it was mostly yogurts and kefirs, but, you know, sauerkraut, kimchi, vinegars. Yeah, kimchi.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:31:30]:
So these are fermented foods.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:31:32]:
And lo and behold, these guys, their gut microbiome biodiversity improved and their inflammation markers went down.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:31:40]:
Now, why is that?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:31:42]:
Well, it turns out, as I write about a gut check, that these butyrate producing bacteria can't take this prebiotic fiber and make butyrate. They have to have precursors, other short chain fatty acids to do the job. So they have to have acetate proprionate, and then they have to have the fiber. And only with these missing pieces can.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:32:09]:
They make what we're looking for.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:32:11]:
And it was a, it's a great.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:32:13]:
Example of, well, son of a gun.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:32:16]:
Back in the good old days, everybody fermented everything because that was the only storage system. Everything rotted. And you look at cultures and, you know, everybody rots everything.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:32:28]:
And, and it was really important. The other thing that I think is.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:32:34]:
Really important for most people to realize is that our great, great grandparents ate whole foods, but they ate them whole.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:32:47]:
And.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:32:49]:
We don't do that anymore. We eat these processed and ultra processed foods that have been stripped of fiber.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:32:59]:
Number one doesn't exist.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:33:02]:
And so we can eat all these, even healthy foods, and they've been stripped of the things that our gut bacteria have to have.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:33:13]:
Our gut bacteria are constantly going, what the heck?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:33:20]:
I can hear you eating up there, but where's my stuff?

Claudia von Boeselager [00:33:24]:
Just flying by.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:33:26]:
Yeah, there was a beautiful study out.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:33:30]:
Of China that I talked about in the last book.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:33:35]:
They took people and put them on a 14 day water fast. Nothing to eat but water.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:33:41]:
Hardcore 14 day, long time. There were two groups.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:33:46]:
One, all they got was water, the other group got 100 calories of prebiotic fiber. Now we can't digest prebiotic fiber, we can't absorb it. There's no calories for us, but that's.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:34:01]:
What the gut bacteria like.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:34:03]:
And fascinatingly, you can imagine the folks with the water fast were pretty doggone hungry for a number of days and.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:34:12]:
Then they got used to it.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:34:14]:
But the group that got the prebiotic fiber had no hunger from day one.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:34:19]:
Wow. And you go, what?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:34:22]:
And of course, the gut bacteria, which actually control your hunger, it's called the gut centric theory of hunger, said, hey, we're good. Thanks a lot.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:34:35]:
Thanks.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:34:36]:
Yeah, it's old, you don't have to go looking for anything else. We're happy. And I and others think that this is actually one of the reasons we all overeat, because our gut bacteria actually control our appetite. And it's like, come on, where is it? It used to be here. Your great grandparents did it.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:35:00]:
Where is it?

Claudia von Boeselager [00:35:04]:
I love that experiment. And I think for a lot of people with overeating, touching on that, it's that disconnect between, well, probably also the replenishing the good bacteria to make sure that there's enough there signal at all to the brain, like, hey, I'm hungry, I'm not hungry. I'm full.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:35:21]:
Please stop.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:35:23]:
I think there must be a strong correlation there, and I'd love to touch on that, actually, the gut brain correlation and access. And you touched also on Alzheimer's and the health implications of the gut not being repaired. Can you expand a bit on that?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:35:42]:
Yeah. Again, I think if you got.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:35:46]:
Well, when you get Doctor Bredesen and I in a room, we both are convinced that leaky mouth and leaky gut lead to leaky brain.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:35:59]:
And.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:36:03]:
We know that all these tangles.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:36:05]:
And all this amyloid are really a.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:36:09]:
Protective mechanism of the brain against foreign invaders, infectious agents. And the idea that we should develop drugs to break down these compounds is.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:36:25]:
At least to the both of us.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:36:27]:
Rather laughable, because these were put there as agents against infection.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:36:34]:
So you got to go.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:36:35]:
Well, what infections are threatening the brain? And we know that there are bodyguards of the neurons in the brain, which are called glial cells, or microglial cells, and that's the immune system of the brain. And these bodyguards, if there's mischief down.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:36:57]:
Below in the gut, 80% of our.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:37:00]:
Immune system actually lines the wall of our gut.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:37:04]:
80%. Wow.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:37:06]:
And so if the wall of the gut is being broken, if the hordes.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:37:11]:
Are at the gate, then part of what happens is our immune system literally.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:37:19]:
Says, oh, my gosh, you know, we're under attack. These guys are loose, and they're coming for you, brain, and you got to prepare yourselves. And so the glial cells go, oh, my gosh, here they come. I've gotten the message. They're marching. They're coming. What's really scary is neurons talk to other neurons via dendritic processes.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:37:52]:
They grow little axons out to talk to another nerve, and they communicate.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:38:00]:
It's almost like a lot of airports have a central hub, and they have spokes that go out where the airplanes are. So those spokes are where other neurons talk to us. What happens is, when the glial cells are activated, that mischief is ahead. They literally, and we can film this.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:38:21]:
I can't, but Harvard can be.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:38:25]:
They eat these processes, these dendritic processes, they literally. They leach. They literally kind of pull everybody back from the periphery to the central fork, the neuron itself, and then they pull up the drawbridge so that nothing can.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:38:44]:
Get to that neuron.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:38:47]:
And needless to say, if they eat away these connections, then it's no wonder.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:38:55]:
That we can't remember things.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:38:58]:
And so we can actually. I mean, you can experimentally induce this.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:39:03]:
And it's like, wow, you know, what.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:39:06]:
Are we doing worrying about the brain when it's just responding to a threat that's recognized down in the gut? Once again, hippocrates was right. All disease begins in the gut. Better said, fall disease begins in a leaky gut. Now, it's a little more complicated than that because we know that certain bacterial species are viewed as real mischief makers and they produce some compounds called LPs's.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:39:42]:
So it's that like H. Pylori, would you say? Or is there certain.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:39:45]:
Well, H. Pylori is not as bad as people think, but.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:39:50]:
So gram negative bacteria have, like E.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:39:55]:
Coli is gram negative bacteria.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:39:56]:
Okay.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:39:59]:
Pseudomonas is a gram negative bacteria. These have cell walls that sadly, can get through the wall of our gut by several mechanisms, and they're recognized as foreign by our immune system.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:40:16]:
And the immune system literally reads whether.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:40:23]:
A bacteria is a good guy or.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:40:25]:
Bad guy by reading the barcode on the cell wall.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:40:29]:
We have barcode scanners.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:40:31]:
And the immune system can't tell by.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:40:34]:
Reading the cell wall of a bacteria whether that bacteria is living or dead.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:40:40]:
It sees the cell wall and assumes.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:40:43]:
That it's a living bacteria.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:40:45]:
Good guess.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:40:46]:
And if a living bacteria is where it shouldn't be, that should be cause for alarm and sends out inflammatory signals, but also sends these signals to the brain. So. And we know that people who have elevated markers of lipopolysaccharides, LP's in their blood, which we can measure, have a much greater incidence of dementia, have a much greater incidence of heart disease, for example.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:41:18]:
So it's epocrates, right? Sorry.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:41:27]:
Get over it.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:41:28]:
Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:41:28]:
Two and a half thousand years. What would you say, doctor Gundy, are some of the key strategies? And I know it's obviously general and many people have different intricacies with their gut health, but what are some of the strategies people should be focusing on to keep a healthy gut and maintain it throughout their lifetime?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:41:50]:
Well, I think one of the, I guess, exciting news is that the more fermented foods you add to your diet, probably the better off you are.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:42:04]:
Fermentation has several benefits besides introducing these postbiotics.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:42:12]:
Fermentation. Turns out one of my chapters is dead men tell no tales, but dead bacteria do. And it turns out that most of.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:42:23]:
The benefit of fermented foods is not.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:42:26]:
Live bacteria, not probiotics. Most of the time when we eat these things, the bacteria are long dead, or if they're still living, they'll be eaten by our stomach acid, and they'll never get to where we want to go.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:42:42]:
However, the dead bacteria, their cell wall.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:42:47]:
Carries information, and other bacteria read that cell wall and say, for instance, there's a wonderful, really keystone bacteria called ackermancia mucinophila. You can buy living eckermancia, but you can also buy dead eckermansia.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:43:09]:
And lo and behold, like I write.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:43:11]:
About in the book, the dead Akermansia seems to be just about as useful as the living because the bacteria in.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:43:20]:
Our gut, they read this dead bacteria, and they go, oh, Akermansia is in the house.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:43:27]:
Yeah, you know, it's time to party. Let's.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:43:30]:
You know, and it's like, wow, this.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:43:34]:
Is such a complex system that our ancestors somehow knew. How'd they know to ferment stuff? So a lot of fermented foods now, fermented foods are readily available, so you don't have to have sauerkraut every day.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:43:50]:
Do you make your own, or do you pretend?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:43:53]:
Okay.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:43:56]:
Yeah, you can do it. I don't have the time. I'm seeing patients six days a week. Vinegars are fermented foods. Good news, wine is a fermented food. Champagne actually has a huge number of health benefits, particularly to women.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:44:14]:
The alcohol, what do you think?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:44:17]:
Does it outweigh alcohol?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:44:18]:
Well, it turns out there's really good human studies showing that the alcohol plus the fermentation process makes these things work. The same studies have been done in humans using the polyphenols in wine or.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:44:36]:
In just alcohol from, like, gin. And there's absolutely no benefit.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:44:41]:
But the combination of the alcohol with these polyphenols has a profound benefit on improving microbiome biodiversity. And that's what I want in my gut. So, believe it or not, I have a glass of red wine every night, whether I want to or not, for medicinal purposes, for my gut microbiome.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:45:03]:
I think there's a lot of people listening that are probably very happy to hear you say this.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:45:07]:
Now, having said that, if you don't drink, don't start, please. My grandfather was an alcoholic, so I know the risks involved. It's never worth that risk. So if you don't drink, don't start.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:45:25]:
Yeah. Okay.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:45:28]:
The other things.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:45:30]:
Chocolate is a fermented food.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:45:33]:
Dark tea is a fermented food. Coffee is a fermented food. So there's all sorts of easy ways to get fermented foods in our diet.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:45:44]:
That we don't even think are fermented foods.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:45:47]:
How particular should one be? So is it only the 90% cacao chocolates? Are there certain tea brands that you say? Definitely, and others less so?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:45:59]:
Well, yeah. So in general, chocolate, unfortunately, most chocolate has sugar in it. The higher the percentage of cacao, the less sugar. And so I tend to eat 90%.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:46:13]:
Me too.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:46:15]:
Most people, it's hard to get them to do that right away. So I'll start my patients at 70, 72% and work them up.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:46:25]:
And the nice thing is, most people.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:46:27]:
Find, as sugar is gradually removed from their diet, these things taste sweeter and.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:46:35]:
Sweeter and sweeter, so it's easy to retrain tea.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:46:42]:
There's, there's a fermented tea, primarily in China, also in Japan, called pu erh tea. And I've written about the benefits of pu erh tea, and it's the fermentation process that improves.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:46:56]:
So people who drink pu erh tea.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:46:59]:
Like I've written about in previous books, have a much more biodiverse microbiome than.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:47:05]:
People who don't drink fermented tea. And by the way, green tea is not fermented. Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:47:13]:
Poor tea as well. What are some of the advances in science that you're most excited about in your field of speciality?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:47:24]:
Well, I think because of the human microbiome project, we've been able to now accurately map what each individual bacteria is capable of doing.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:47:41]:
And literally, with every week something a.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:47:49]:
I'll give you a little teaser for the next book. We know that uric acid is actually, in a lot of ways, really bad for us. Uric acid causes gout. Uric acid causes high blood pressure. Uric acid can damage kidneys. And uric acid is very responsible for promoting insulin resistance. So uric acid is not a great.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:48:14]:
Thing, and uric acid kidney stones are.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:48:20]:
A real thing, and so that's not a great thing to have.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:48:25]:
Recently, bacteria was discovered that normally most.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:48:33]:
People know that you can't really eat raw olives. Olives have to be fermented, they have to be brined. And in the process of brining olives.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:48:45]:
There'S a bacteria that coats olives, that.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:48:48]:
Grows, thrives in this medium, and this particular bacteria loves to eat uric acid. Just think it's the best, tastiest stuff.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:49:00]:
Wow.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:49:01]:
And this bacteria actually fosters more biodiversity of the gut microbiome. And it turns out that the same bacteria is in pickle juice.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:49:15]:
Now you go back to old wives.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:49:17]:
Tales and pickle juice. Drinking pickle juice cures you of x and y and z. Well, we now know that.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:49:24]:
Okay.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:49:25]:
It wasn't so much that olives were good for you, it was the fact that these olives were carrying a bacteria that was really. That is really useful for eating uric acid.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:49:36]:
Wow.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:49:36]:
And it's the same with pickle juice.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:49:39]:
So we're just constantly finding that, you know, there's, there's this. Wow. And the reason I'm mentioning this is.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:49:50]:
There is a company in the UK that now sells this particular bacteria as a probiotic and mine arrived yesterday. So I'm going now.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:50:02]:
I don't have your guest problem, but.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:50:04]:
What the heck, if this guy's going to give me more biodiversity, then I'm all for it.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:50:09]:
Sounds great. Are you okay to share the name or.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:50:14]:
It'S called.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:50:15]:
Actually, I'll tell you real quick, I'll take a second.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:50:21]:
Kidney stones. No problem. While you look there, I've had David Perlmutter, who you mentioned also before on the podcast, and he wrote the book drop acid. Right. Which is all about the uric acid. And he heard originally of the idea because of the interview with Peter Attia and doctor Richard Johnson. And Richard Johnson has been on twice as well also.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:50:41]:
Yeah, we've become friends as well.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:50:43]:
He's lovely. Yeah, I mean, they're great. It's nice. It becomes one big happy family at one point, which is wonderful. But how exciting that this is actually a workaround to solve also the kidney stone and the higher uric acid levels. My cousin's husband was suffering with kidney stones. I haven't had them, thankfully, but it sounds very painful. So if there is a wonderful probiotic that helps with that.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:51:09]:
And epigenetics.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:51:11]:
Epigenetics is the name of the company.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:51:13]:
So the name of the company? Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's a UK. It's based in. Where's it based?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:51:23]:
Pusey, Wiltshire. Wiltshire. Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:51:26]:
In the countryside of London.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:51:29]:
Beautiful.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:51:30]:
And the name of the. Because people listening might be very curious as well. That's the actual product name or is that.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:51:37]:
Yeah, that's the product. The product name is 1 second lactobacillus pentosis.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:51:45]:
Lactobacillus pentosis.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:51:47]:
Pentosis.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:51:48]:
Pentosis.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:51:49]:
Got it hot off the press.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:51:51]:
Brand new information.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:51:53]:
They should give them a heads up this. Their product might sell out sooner than later.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:51:59]:
Sorry about that. That happened to me before when I mentioned a product and I have no relationship, folks. I'm not an influencer of this. They didn't pay me to tell them I actually paid them money to try.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:52:13]:
This, to try it as well. And I think it's so that's one of the things you were saying is so exciting. The research that is coming out around you were saying with the olives and the pickle juice and the ability to reduce the uric acid levels, what else is keeping you up with excitement?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:52:35]:
Well, I think the other thing that is very exciting to me is that I mentioned this while I wrote a whole chapter about it in gut check.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:52:45]:
That we have been really naive about.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:52:51]:
How much single cell organisms can get a complex multicellular organism, like a human.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:53:02]:
Being, to do their bidding.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:53:07]:
And it really bothers people that, you know, we're the greatest example of an animal ever and, you know, have the greatest brain, and that a single cell organism can completely take control of our behavior.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:53:26]:
And in my next book, it turns out that we. This, the microbiome is the puppet master.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:53:37]:
And we are merely the puppet, and we need to get over it, and we need to know.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:53:47]:
So, for instance, all addictive behavior is.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:53:51]:
Actually driven by the microbiome. And it is fascinating to realize that once you understand that these guys are pulling the strings, that actually gives you hope that if we manipulate them by changing our foods, by introducing bacteria that are good guys rather than bad guys, driving the bad guys out, by literally starving them to death, then you can change some of what we would assume were horrible psychologic issues. And I wrote about that in gut check.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:54:41]:
We know that depression and anxiety is.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:54:45]:
Directly related to dysbiotic microbiome and leaky gut.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:54:50]:
And so if you fix that, one.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:54:54]:
Of the fun things is it looks like most SSRI antidepressants work by changing.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:55:00]:
The microbiome, not by doing silly stuff in your brain.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:55:06]:
Interesting.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:55:06]:
I think that's what's really exciting, that.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:55:11]:
We'Re really beginning to understand who's been.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:55:14]:
Pulling the strings.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:55:18]:
And for good reason.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:55:19]:
You know, there's a lot more of those guys than there are us.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:55:24]:
Yeah, we're the puppet masters. But I think, as you said, it's exciting because it empowers us to understand that and then take action to replenish and to take back the driver's seat and control who. Who the drivers in the car are essentially as well. Beautiful. Where can people, as we finish up today, where can people find out more about what you're up to, what's coming? Do you have a website you'd like to point people to? Social media?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:55:57]:
Sure.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:55:58]:
I've got two YouTube channels. I've got the doctor Gundry podcast. I've got Instagram accounts that you can find. Doctor Gundry.com is one of my sites. Gundrymd.com is my supplement and food company. That's actually where I am on the 7th day. So I see patients six days a week and I'm at Gundry MD on the 7th day.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:56:29]:
So I have to ask, despite us finishing up here, how do you keep up your energy levels to such a high level? And what are some of your key routines to thrive seven days a week?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:56:41]:
Well, number one, I get to see miracles every day. And, you know, I'll soon turn 74.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:56:52]:
And I have, you know, I literally.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:56:55]:
See patients six days a week, work.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:56:56]:
Seven days a week.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:56:58]:
So, you know, you literally get to see people transform their lives and go from a hopeless situation to feeling normal. So many of my patients will say.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:57:10]:
You know, I forgot what feeling normal feels like.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:57:15]:
What a gift, I thought, yeah. And it's, you know, why wouldn't I get up? I just, I'm a kid in the candy store. Bad example, static example.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:57:27]:
But, you know, I, I try my.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:57:32]:
Best to feed these gut buddies, as I call them, what they want to.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:57:37]:
Eat, and they seem to power my.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:57:42]:
Mitochondria because again, the sisterhood is talking to their sisters and I want them to tell the mitochondria, hey, make a lot of energy.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:57:52]:
What does the day in the life of what you consume look like? I'm curious.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:57:57]:
Everybody wants to know. Well, so I'm actually having vital reds, one of my first formula, gundry MD, which is just a ton of polyphenols, but we won't go into that.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:58:12]:
From January through June every year for.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:58:17]:
The last 23 years, I don't eat breakfast and I don't eat lunch. I eat all my meal, all my calories between five and 07:00 at night. So I do an Omad, one meal a day. And I've been doing that now for 23 years, as far as I know, and nobody's refuted me. I'm the first person to write about intermittent fasting in the early two thousands in a book.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:58:45]:
So.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:58:47]:
That'S what I do.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:58:50]:
So I don't eat during that time.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:58:53]:
Do I get hungry?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:58:54]:
Not at all.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:58:56]:
Does it improve?

Claudia von Boeselager [00:58:57]:
Do you drink fermented drinks or anything during that time?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:58:59]:
I drink tea.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:59:00]:
I drink tea throughout the day.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:59:03]:
And in fact, if you actually saw, well, I'll have tea after this. If you actually saw my teacup, it's monstrous. And I actually have eight different bags of tea sitting in my teacup and.

Dr Steven Gundry [00:59:17]:
I won't go into the well.

Claudia von Boeselager [00:59:18]:
Please tell me why eight bags? Just out of curiosity. I know we're finishing up here now, but why ate well?

Dr Steven Gundry [00:59:24]:
Because I want these primarily polyphenols extracted by hot water. Each of them has an effect. During the summer and fall, I go back to eating two meals a day. I always do intermittent fasting. I purposely try to gain ten to 15 pounds every summer and fall, and then I purposely take it off during the winter and spring and people go, what the heck? That's really stupid.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:00:00]:
What are you doing that for?

Dr Steven Gundry [01:00:01]:
Well, yeah, our, as David Permar would tell you, and I would tell you, we inherited a mutation from great apes that allowed them to take advantage of fruit to store fat for the winter and it allowed them actually to take over the world. And we inherited that genetic mutation and were designed to become fat for the winter because during the winter there wasn't really any food. And so I'm doing my best to cycle how I think that we were designed. The other thing that's very clear from watching hunter gatherers is they have a plentiful season and they have a horrible season, and their gut microbiome shifts dramatically during that time. And who's to say which of those microbiomes are important? But I would say if that was our design over millions of years, that perhaps I should try to duplicate that design with how I cycle access to food.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:01:11]:
And, you know, we'll see.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:01:14]:
So it's like falling out of a hundred storey window. So far, so good. On the way down, I think you're.

Claudia von Boeselager [01:01:21]:
On a somewhat safer path, though. It feels. Thankfully. Thankfully. But really such a role model in many regards and really so grateful for your work. I wanted to ask you if you have any final ask or recommendation or any parting thoughts or message for my audience today?

Dr Steven Gundry [01:01:41]:
Well, yeah, I think the message I would actually. I got to know the grandfather of the godfather of fitness, Jack Loane, in his later years.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:01:53]:
And Jack used to say, and my.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:01:57]:
People tell me, don't ever say this.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:02:00]:
You know, if it tastes good, spit it out. Now.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:02:03]:
That's not actually what he meant. What he meant was, don't be influenced by this two by three inch piece.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:02:09]:
Of muscle, your tongue.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:02:12]:
Eat for them, the more you consciously for the guys waiting for their meal, which is your gut microbiome, and give them what they want, they will take care of you because you are their home and they want to be good tenants. And so you got to be a good landlord.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:02:37]:
And really, if you take care of them with what you eat, you'll do fine.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:02:44]:
I mean, you know, I'm about to turn 74. I'm on no medications. My wife and I hike 1012 miles in the mountains of Italy on a routine basis.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:02:56]:
And so it's like, so far, so good.

Claudia von Boeselager [01:03:01]:
Well, definitely a role model. And thank you so much for your work and that you're seven days a week continuing to work and bringing out new books all the time and inspiring the world. So, so grateful for you. Thank you so much and for coming on and for everybody listening and tuning in today as well.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:03:16]:
Thank you.

Dr Steven Gundry [01:03:16]:
Thanks for having me, Claudia. Appreciate it.