Claudia von Boeselager: Welcome to the Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast, Mario, it's such a pleasure to have you on today. 

Mario Chamorro: It's my pleasure to be part of your podcast. I have it in my background. 

Claudia von Boeselager: I can see it there, Mario. Thank you. 
Mario, I'd like to start with why happiness is such an important passion project for you, or way of life I should say, and why happiness in your view is also so important for longevity. 

Mario Chamorro: So happiness is important for me because I believe it's a good way to live our lives. When you prioritize happiness, you develop habits in your day-to-day that equip to be in a more happier mood. 

But I would say, kind of like, I'll take a step back and I would say, like, for me, happiness is mostly tranquility. For me, happiness is not being super optimistic, it's just, kind of like, or going crazy, for me happiness is just to be tranquility, it is, for me, happiness is a lifestyle to be at ease. So that's what happiness is to me. And when you think about a lifestyle, that means it's a sum of different habits, and to be at ease means just to have tranquility.

So that's happiness for me. And to build this lifestyle on a day-to-day basis is one of my priorities because by doing that, it's how I find meaning in my life. And that's why happiness is important to me. 

The second part of your question is longevity is because by building a lifestyle where you you prioritize happiness, that makes you do things such as build habits around taking care of your health, taking care of your relationships, and doing work that matters to you.

And when we have balance between those three, you have a better longevity. So for instance, one of my goals is to climb the volcano from my hometown, for my birthday, number 80. So I am 41 right now. And I just climbed that volcano probably like four months ago. So I know, like, I need to be in shape in order to do it.
So that's why, by prioritizing this, I can reach my bucket list goal of going to the volcano on my birthday number 80. 

Claudia von Boeselager: I love it. And the part of my goals is to be the 90 year old that goes skydiving. I think I want to also maybe climb Kilimanjaro, but maybe climbing a volcano would be fun as well. And just having tons of fun, because I think when people think of longevity, they're things like, oh, I don't want to be in ill-health and sitting on a sofa for another 20 years. That's not interesting, actually. What I want is to live really well, right? So it's increasing healthspan of the healthy years. So you can do cool things like climbing a volcano at 80, or jumping out of airplanes, or whatever it is that you might want to do, or just even playing tennis or something. Maybe a little bit more, more normal. Amazing. 

Mario, you were part of a group of happiness activists who created the United Nations International Day of Happiness, March 20th. Can you talk about how this came to be and what was the idea behind it? 
Mario Chamorro: That was a fun experience which started that back in the year 2010 when I walk 

Claudia von Boeselager: into a bar... No, this is not a joke. 

Mario Chamorro: That's the typical joke you're making, right?

In Boston. And then I saw a lot of people who were sitting in this bar were kind of sad. So you have couples on tables that were staring at their cellphones. They weren't talking to each other. So then I ask a friend of mine like, hey, what do you think makes these people happy? And she said, hey, Mario, you always have post-it notes, right? Like this one. And you always have Sharpies. So why you don't go and ask them to write anything that makes them happy. So I said, that sounds fun. So I went to every single table in that bar, like, hey, my name is Mario, can you please write anything that makes you happy. And hopefully if someone is listening to us right now, they will write - Actually, Claudia, if you can also write something that makes you happy that'll be, that'll be fun. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Sure. Oh, I have a long list. How many things should I write? 

Mario Chamorro: Oh, ah, as much as you want. If you want one so you can share it with your audience. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Okay. So on my list, I've got my kids being silly, sunshine, the ocean, sunsets, laughing, friends. And that was the beginning of my list that I just did in however many seconds. 
Great. 

Mario Chamorro: So, 

Claudia von Boeselager: sunshine, friends- 
Kids, laughing, being silly. I like to be silly. 

Mario Chamorro: That's good. That is important. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Don't take myself very seriously. 

Mario Chamorro: That's good. And so by asking that simple question, couples start holding hands and start having conversations. So when I saw all that impact of just such a simple thing, my friend turned back to me and say, hey, how about if you collect 3000 of these post-it notes and built an art installation?

So I thought that was a really fun project. So, the following day, I went to the Boston Commons. Again, Boston Common is kinda like the main part in Boston. And I started asking strangers to do the same exercise of what makes you happy, and then you take a picture of you. 

So I collected 3000 post-it notes in two weeks. So I had my first art installation and I'm not an artist to be fair, and to be transparent. But during that installation, like, people start interacting with that installation. So it was really powerful to see people just writing their message of happiness. So I build a website and I started doing that exercise almost on a weekly basis.

Long story short, in a year and a half, that project went to 30 different countries. So we had people doing, asking people on the street on things such as the Tahrir Square during the Arab Spring in Egypt, a woman was doing that project, asking people what makes them happy, or a seven years old girl in Saudi Arabia, or an artist in Kenya.

So that was really powerful. So in one of these exercises, I was asking people in the streets of Cambridge, Massachusetts, not the UK, but Massachusetts, and I met this guy who his name was Nima and he was the advisor for the King of Bhutan. So he asked me, like, what are you doing, this? And I said, like, you know what, I believe in happiness. 

So he shared the story about his king, how the King of Bhutan asked people of their, you know, their country of Bhutan, what makes them happy. And that's how they build the Gross National Happiness. That was the very early beginnings of the Gross National Happiness. 

For those who doesn't know what the Gross National Happiness is, so every single country measures success based on Gross Domestic Product, GDP, which is the amount of services and product that a country produced in 12 months, within one year. So in Bhutan they had a different vision. So they believe in happiness and it should be a more holistic measurements. It's not only like the amount of goods and services, but it's also to take things in place, such as the environment, time with family, and others.

So this country is only like 1 million inhabitants, the population of the country, but became very famous because they manage their economy based on happiness. So when he shared that example, you know, like I got really excited and that's how he ended up inviting me to the first Summit on Happiness at the UN back in 2012, April 2012, where ministers from, or secretaries from, 65 different countries gathered to talk about how to implement happiness in public policy. So my friend Nima he said, hey, Mario, it would be good if you share your project with this group of policy makers. So during that summit, I shared this project that I shared with you. And at the end of the summit, one of the ideas about what to do together as a group of, of, you know, like optimism happiness activists was to create a day of happiness.

So that's how I ended up getting involved with other individuals on the creation of International Day of Happiness. So I remember partnering with Jamie Elian who was probably the main spokesperson and also with the ambassador for Iraq, Hamid Al-Bayati, and he shared with us that he's commitment with happiness was very high because when he was part of the regime of Saddam Hussein, he got tortured by Saddam Hussein. And he said the only thing that helped him to survive and to overcome those challenges was his thoughts about happiness. So that's why he felt in debt with happiness. So he helped us and we convinced 83 countries who signed up to this proposal. So that's how March 20 became the International Day of Happiness under Ban Ki-moon's direction.

Claudia von Boeselager: At the United Nations. Such an incredible story. How is it celebrated? What is a typical celebration for the International Day of Happiness? 
Mario Chamorro: The whole idea is, we started like, Christmas has a day, December 24th. So we said, like, hey, happiness should have a day.

I believe a lot in social movements and social movements need things such as, one, a powerful story. Two, you need ways how to connect one member with a movement with another member, or with the movement itself. And three, you need a lot of colors or things where you can connect with each other kind of like it's part of the tribe or is part of the community, right? 

Claudia von Boeselager: Yeah. 

Mario Chamorro: So we thought that yellow was, kind of like, the color or this particular community.

So we lit up the whole Empire State Building in yellow. I remember Pharrell Williams was there. And also we lit up the Coit Tower here in San Francisco in yellow to do, kind of like, a cross-pollination happiness, yellow illumination. And the tallest building in Bogota as well, to complete that triangle.

But other than that, we built a lot of activations on happiness in several countries. There is a very great organization in the UK called Action for Happiness. And they became the leaders on creating all these activations during the International Day of Happiness. So yeah, UK was extremely important. 

Claudia von Boeselager: I love it. So, Mario, can you tell us a bit about the scientific and the biochemical effect of happiness, smiling, we know about serotonin, but can you just dig in a little bit deeper why, physiologically also, happiness is so important? 

Mario Chamorro: Sure. So we call it the Happiness DOSE, like, D O S E. D comes from dopamine. O comes from oxytocin. S comes from serotonin. And E comes from endorphins. So those are like the four main chemicals that are part of our brain that give us this feeling of joy or happiness.

So dopamine, it's interesting, but it can be activated a lot with things such as a text message. That's why, kind of like, cellphones have been developed to, you know, like to release dopamine in our brains, which is really bad. But it's also like the sense that we have when we finish a task. So that's why, for instance, every morning on my morning rituals, I write, I don't know, like the three important things that I want to do during the day. So for instance, today was, swimming was one of them. So when I completed swimming, you know, I felt good. So that's dopamine. 

Oxytocin is more external because it can be activated, for instance, when you hug someone. So when you hug your kids or your partner, or your friends, you know, like try to give a meaningful and very present hug. I know you guys are European probably you don't do that as well as we do in Latin America. But hugs are good- 

Claudia von Boeselager: I'm a good, I'm a good hugger. Although I'm from different places so I don't really know where I'm from, so maybe, that's true.

Mario Chamorro: But, you know, like, that's as simple as that. So release that. And S comes from a serotonin. I think that also is related to more the exterior. So it's a feeling, for instance, let's say your daughter just graduated from kindergarten and you felt so proud about her, right? So it's not related with you directly. You didn't finish kindergarten, but it's someone else, who achieved something and you felt this sense of like, you know, good, you feel good. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Pride and happiness, yeah. 

Mario Chamorro: So also like things such as, you know, thoughts of gratitude, are super important. And again, it's not only about us, but it's also like about people either that we know them or we don't. Right? But it's something that we can think.

So if you, kind of like, you know like, close your eyes and, like, think about, like, things that you feel grateful for, or kind of like, think of, uh, how do you feel proud about others. That's how you can create it. 

And the last one is endorphins, which comes from running, walking, working out. So those four are some of the key chemicals that are in our brains that help us to activate, you know, happiness. And we can do, we can practice them on a daily basis.

Again, I just give you a list, you know, like dopamine, do make a list of things that you want to do. Oxytocin, just go and hug someone. Seratonin, like, you know, close your eyes and just feel pride for someone that you love. And endorphins, go for a walk or just go do five push ups or something like that.

Claudia von Boeselager: I'm curious, Mario. So is your daily three or four things to do, your to-do list, based on the DOSE? So do you have to take a D and an O an S and an E each day? 

Mario Chamorro: Actually it's funny but I was just thinking about it. I do kind of like I'd be able to have it based on three things on health, relationships, and work. So on a not not very voluntary basis, I ended up activating the four of them. So again, this morning, you know, like dopamine, the first thing that I did this morning was to write things that I want to achieve during the day.

 On oxytocin, I went for a walk with my wife and we hugged for, I think like, five minutes or so, because we always do morning affirmations such as, you know, like Gaia. Like this morning was "el universo conspirar a nuestro favor", is kind of like, the universe conspire in our favor or something like that. To try to see it, you know, like very meaningfully and- 

Claudia von Boeselager: Beautiful. 

Mario Chamorro: And yeah, like, the S we always do with my wife also, like, what are the three things that you feel grateful for, every morning?
And then there are things, I went swimming, so, yes. So yes. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Wow. You've got your daily DOSE. I love it. So happiness, you walk the talk. I love it Mario. Amazing. 
I hear that you, obviously we know that you love to spread happiness, but then it also sometimes involves wearing costumes. Can you talk about a fun story I hear you have on wearing a costume at an important work event? 

Mario Chamorro: Yeah. So I, yes, I, and in fact, I have a kind of like a ninja turtle next to me. See? His name is Miguel. 

Claudia von Boeselager: I used to love the ninja turtles. 

Mario Chamorro: He's my friend. So I, I do love costumes. I believe in a world where whimsy and imagination are the norm, or I dream with our world where whimsy and imagination are the norm. So costumes is a, is a funny manifestation of that. 
When the pandemic started, the company that I used to work with, Coursera, which is an online education startup, we, as many companies, we went to work online, right?

So we all started working remote from our homes and, kind of like, it's hard to maintain the culture from a place that, now that is remote work. Right? So I remember just missing that, you know, like that culture of like whimsy that Coursera had and, you know, it was fun and it was quirky. And so we had all-hands meetings, or town hall meetings, twice per month with the whole company.

So as a joke, you know, one day I start putting actually, actually, I always have here kind of like I have my Mario hat, right? So I came out like that and then I turned and I found that mustache. So I became kind of like Mario, right? 

Claudia von Boeselager: You're just missing the wheel. 

Mario Chamorro: Yeah. So then I got a lot of like internal messages, like, oh my God, that's really fun. You should, kind of like, have another costume next day and next step town hall. So I did that and I have even that I'm having a different costume in and then started feeling all this, kind of like, you know, like the culture that we have of Coursera. So I ended up having 40, more than 40, costumes. Yeah. 

Claudia von Boeselager: So you're ready for Carnival at the drop of a hat. You can-

Mario Chamorro: Yeah. And, no, actually, you know, it's funny because actually, okay, I have a picture here, so it became a thing at Coursera. So then, you know, like, we had our own channel and people were, you know, like sending me ideas about what costumes should I wear. So the office in India, one day they say, hey, you know, we have Gandhi day. It will be very meaningful if you dress up like Gandhi. So I shaved my head. And I became Gandhi. And just by doing that, then I started, you know, like having emails from coworkers that I never knew, they say like, hey, you know, their favorite part for town halls is your costumes because they, I ended up speaking for five minutes to the whole company, to 1000 people, right? In the different costumes.

Very serious comments or very serious questions, but people used to come with their kids just to watch like wild Mario was going to dress up like that day. So that became a, like, kinda like a family traditions with, my wife helped me to, you know, like to do the make up or, and my Mom was always like, what's going to be the costume for next week.

So it became a thing. And I think that helped us through navigate the pandemic in a more whimsical way. 

Claudia von Boeselager: How amazing, Mario, to be such a spreader of joy. I mean, just think of the ripple effect that you had, a thousand people on the call, but then their families were involved. They were bringing their kids. I mean, you became like the highlight from the company town hall to check out which outfit you would do.

So, I mean, really hats off to you, Carnival hats off to you, for spreading so much happiness and joy and just making light of it, I think, as well. And I think the more people who wouldn't take themselves, I'd say, so seriously. And be out to have a bit more fun. I think we would all be laughing a lot, much more of the time as well. So I love your attitude.

Mario, where did this all, when did all this joy, I should say, start? Were you the happiest baby in Columbia? Maybe you can talk a little bit about your childhood, and growing up beside of volcano in Columbia, and your journey to where you are now. And if there were any particular learnings or insights that most impacted you along the way? 

Mario Chamorro: One of my mentors, I mean, sorry for what I'm going to say, I'm going to curse but he used to say that even pretty flowers grow from shit. Right? So I think, like, a lot of like difficult moments build character. 

Mario Chamorro: Character that is me, right? But I, as you said, I come from, like, a small town in Columbia called Pasto and my Mum was always very kind of like work oriented. My dad was more. You know, like the loving guy that used to walk on the street and everyone hog him and just love him.

So I had like these combination of, you know, I'm like hustling, working really hard towards your goal with this, you know, hard with legs that always, you know, walks around and just as miles. And I think that's, uh, as a result of. So I developed this huge entrepreneurial drive, thanks to my mom and this and her love to do good for the world.

So she used to work great on privileged kids, and I think she was very purpose woman still. And my dad was just mostly kind of like be silly and just make fun of yourself and just. You know, just enjoy life. So I think that's part of me. I moved to bullet thou when I was 16, I went through, did my college share against all the different arts and funny things.

I moved to the U S in 2004 where I didn't speak English at all. They didn't have any money and didn't know anyone in. I'm really good by making friends. So I ended up making friends and they persuade me to apply to Columbia university. And then I ended up working in wall street until the financial crisis happened.

Then I moved. Through Boston. And in that moment, uh, it was 2009 and I started building one of the happiness projects that I was mentioning earlier because I thought a, especially after the economic crisis, they say like, Hey, you know, it's important to find purpose. I remember staring at the buildings in wall street saying, Hey, how's it possible that all these, you know, like larger organizations are only related to either finance or consulting or.

Oil or stuff like that. Uh, when would be the day where an organization that is devoted to the good for the world will be also financially important. So I had that thought back in 2008 and just five months before. Coursera where the company that I used to work, which again, the main mission of grisaille was to democratize education, which means to make education from places such as the Stanford, Yale, Columbia Riskin salon to available to anyone when public.

So that was a really powerful moment. I said, you know, like it took me probably like 12 years to get there, but it was a really good sign of, like, the world is changing and it's possible to, you know, like to live well by doing good. 

Claudia von Boeselager: I love that. And I love your vision of having the most successful, or a very successful, company that is just doing good all day, every day. And that to be one of the major global leaders. So maybe in our lifetime, what do you think? How long is it going to take for that to happen? 

Mario Chamorro: Now with the access of technology that we all have, I believe it's going to happen sooner. I mean, again, Coursera was a B Corp, which is this standard in the US of companies that are, have, like, really strong social standards, and that went public. So, and that already happened. And as well as Coursera, there are many companies that are doing financially super well with a very social mission. So I believe access to technology is the game changer. Technology and the internet became the game changer to make these ideas of doing good, living well by doing good. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Let's talk about habit building. You touched on it before. How you structure your day and certain habits for success and for happiness. Can you talk a bit about that? 

Mario Chamorro: Sure. I think I, like, have, like, some good example here. It's okay. I build my weeks every week based on three things. Again, at the beginning. I mentioned that it's, for me, happiness is a lifestyle to be at ease. A lifestyle means a bunch of habits. 

So the habits that I build on a weekly basis are three. One, are habits around health, which means mind, body, and food. The second one is relationships, which means, the first one is relationship with myself, the second one with my partner, and the third one with friends and family. And the last one with work. First one is our 9 to 5, which is our main job. The second one is our side projects and the last one is to learn. 

So every Sunday, at the end of the day, my wife, Laura, and I, we sit for probably 30 minutes and we plan the whole week around these three buckets, health, relationships, and work.

So let me show you, like, this is for instance how my schedule looks like. So it's very key to be super intentional because if you're not intentional with the things that matter to you, it's really hard that they're going to happen. So in order to be intentional, the system that helps me is to place activities on my Google calendar, because I know if are in my calendar is very likely that is going to happen.

So with Laura, we do, like, as you see, like, in this picture here, we put it in a, in the living room on a calendar that we have, and then we put it on the Google calendar. So green is held. So you can see like the different things that I have in green such as meditation, running, biking. 

And so on relationships. So we have, like, a bi-weekly date with my wife. Yes, we live together and so on, but we do space for like really, really meaningful connection. Or we also have, okay, this week, we're going to spend time with friends. And work, you know, it's also important. 

That's how I build habits on a weekly basis. And when I start asking myself about which habits should I build it's, you know, like basically things that really matter to me is a combination of the things that matter to me with things that I can control. And in the middle is where I am really focused on. Because, again, 99% or 98% of things that happen to me are totally outside of my control. So being aware of that is really important. So I really focus on things that matter to me and I can control. 
So, as a result, for instance, you know, like during the pandemic about this habit building. And health, I challenged myself, with my wife, to walk 10,000 steps per day. So we have our Garmin Watch or any watch- 

Claudia von Boeselager: I've got my Apple Watch, yeah.

Mario Chamorro: So we started doing the 10,000 steps. That helped us to connect more, to spend more time together, but also to be away from our cellphones or computers. And thanks to that, some days I was running out of my 10,000 steps, so I needed to run and I hated running, but I started running and then I fell in love with running. So then I started running half marathons and so on. 
Claudia von Boeselager: Wow. 

Mario Chamorro: So that's what I call compound effect, right? 10,000 steps, 5,000 steps can sound a lot, but maybe it's not a lot, but thanks to that, you can, like, start building beautiful habits. So yeah, so I think kind of like examples like the 10,000 steps and on health and how impactful is the compound effect? I think kind of like that's super important.

Claudia von Boeselager: I love that. And I think it's for people to also realize it's a springboard, right? Because people think, well, you know, I'm never going to run a marathon, but it's like, no, you don't need to run a marathon if you're mainly sedentary, you know, start with 10 or, you know, even a thousand steps, 5,000, then you have 10,000, and you build up the strength, you build up the momentum. And then all of a sudden, a half marathon is possible. And then, you know, who knows, you might even go for the marathon and, at 80 years old, you're climbing a volcano. Right? So it's all about- 

Mario Chamorro: Yeah. 

Claudia von Boeselager: And it becomes more and more realistic and you're like, you know what, actually, I can do it. And it's exciting because you're achieving these really big goals that you previously never thought possible. So very, very cool. 
Mario, you celebrated your 40th birthday last year and I heard you got an incredible gift from your wife. Can you tell us a bit more about that? 

Mario Chamorro: Yeah. She surprised me a lot. So I was, uh, I dunno, it's kinda like, I don't know if it's called like the midlife crisis or so, but I was thinking a lot about hey, turning 40, my goodness.

So I remember that I even did a presentation to my board of directors. I always have, like, the personal board of directors. So I used four slides. Each slide, it was for every single decade in my life. So I had, like, from 0 to 10, 10 to 20, 20 to 30 and so on. So I had key learnings, so highlights and lowlights for each decade, actually.
And then I said, like, wow, I was telling Laura, hey, it's crazy to think that. You know, like, uh, like, my life can be summarized in four slides. So probably I only have four more slides and that's it, you know, I'm out. 

So anyways, I was just like doing all this introspection exercise and so on. And then suddenly Lara came out on my birthday day with this beautiful song called el conejillo es tan grande, conejillo is a Guinea pig. You know, it's like this guy. It's kind of like it's the main animal in my hometown. And like a lot of friends called me conejillo. So she partnered with another good friend of mine who's a fantastic musician Juan Andres Ospina. And they wrote this beautiful song that summarizes my, my life in a song. And instead of, like, four slides it summarize my life in four minutes or three minutes.

Claudia von Boeselager: Yeah, but I think, I mean, it's now there for eternity, right? This beautiful song about your life. So that's, that's really beautiful. 

Mario Chamorro: That's what I tell my friend, he made me immortal. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Immortal, exactly. In 200 years they're going to be wondering who is this Mario or, well, you're already famous with your International Day of Happiness. That spread of happiness. So let's see where the next few years will bring you. 

Mario Chamorro: The sounds of the song are amazing because they're really typical from my hometown. Uh, so I cry a lot when I hear that song, and I probably cried like 25 times and actually my birthday was on the, my 41st birthday was only like two, three weeks ago. And- 

Claudia von Boeselager: Happy birthday. 
   
Mario Chamorro: I went to spend it with my family. So we blasted, we played that song and we blasted that song and we dance that song with my parents and my in-laws many times, so that was really fun. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Oh, you made it back down to Columbia? 

Mario Chamorro: Yeah, it was on my bucket list to get to, to put together my in-laws and my parents after the pandemic. And that was very powerful. Very special. 

Claudia von Boeselager: And have your special song playing as well. How beautiful, how really nice.
I'd love to jump into a few rapid fire questions, Mario. Thinking of the word successful, who is the first person who comes to mind and why?

Mario Chamorro: I have, one of my friends and mentors his name is Juan Pablo Calderon, we call him Dumpa. For me and for my wife, we believe success is to live life on your own terms. So this guy Dumpa, he's brilliant. I mean, he has, I mean, from the science point of view, he has a PhD, blah, blah, blah. But then he also found out how to, you know, like very early to discover, like, cryptocurrencies and he has been doing great in that field. But most importantly, he lives life in a very simple way in the middle of nature in Columbia and his daily or weekly projects are things such as, I am going to harvest, like, 1000 trees.

So, uh, that's what he did. With his own hands, he planted 1000 trees with an indigenous community or, so those are, kind of, like his kinds of projects and he writes, every day, poetry and so on. And he has a beautiful heart. So it's this beautiful combination between heart and brain and being very present. So, uh, yeah, that's to live your life on your own terms. 

Claudia von Boeselager: I love the combination of the cryptocurrency, so in essence, because of, I guess, financial markets or, you know, fiat and crypto, right? But then the contrast with the pure nature and poetry. It's so interesting, but yet makes total sense, I think, as well. And then just him finding his peace and harmony as well.

So I like your definition of success, and I completely agree with you. The ability to say no to the things you want to say no to, and have time for the things that really matter to you. So thank you for sharing that. 

Maria, do you have any particular morning routine to start your day as a success? I mean, you mentioned some of the things you do with your wife. Are there any other particulars that you do every day? 

Mario Chamorro: Oh, for me mornings are the most important part of my day, the one that I love the most, because it's kind of like Mario time. And I'm truly convinced that, if I'm able to do those two, three hours of morning routines, I will be way more effective at work, at everything that I have to do.

So, um, I wake up at 6.30, or I try to wake up at 6.30, so I meditate for 30, 40 minutes. Truly. I just came out of Vipassana. Like there's a 10 day silent retreat. It gives you this- 

Claudia von Boeselager: Wow. 

Mario Chamorro: Really perfect technique. I would- 

Claudia von Boeselager: Let's jump into that in a minute, I'd love to hear more, but keep going, yeah? 

Mario Chamorro: So meditation is the first thing that we do. Then we go for a little walk, with Laura. We live next to a mountain. So we go there for another 20 minutes. During our walk to the mountain we don't talk about work, we just talk about things that we feel grateful for. We do one day affirmation, one to three days affirmations. On the way back, I start movement. So I either go running or swimming or biking or anything. And then I just prepare an amazing breakfast. And I have my beautiful coffee. So I do drip coffee, which takes me, like, 12 minutes, but I love it. Yeah, those are my morning routines. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Columbian coffee I'm sure, right? What's your favorite coffee? 

Mario Chamorro: It could be, like, Columbia, or Guatemala, or Ethiopia. I really like to have, like, a very fruity coffee. The funny story is the coffee that we consume in Columbia is the crappy coffee. The coffee that we send outside of Columbia is the good coffee. So- 

Claudia von Boeselager: Sadly in many countries, it's like this, yes exactly. Because they pay a premium for it. Unfortunately, right? 
I'd love to jump into the retreat you just did, the meditation, the silent retreat. Can you talk a little bit more about that? 

Mario Chamorro: It was a 10-day silent retreat. Silent retreat means no talking at all. I mean, no cellphone, no reading, no writing, none of that. It's, kind of like, it's a very powerful detox because we are hyper, hyper connected right now. Right? And it's basically to learn a technique called Vipassana, which doesn't have to do anything with religion is mostly a technique, but it's very powerful. 

And it's also, it's donation-based. So the whole business model is really beautiful. At the end, you just pay what you felt that you want to contribute. So someone else can do the retreat after you. In a nutshell, it was, kind of, like an iron man, but for meditation, it's intense. It's not, I mean, if you go there, don't think that you're going to a spa, relax, no. It's intense. So- 

Claudia von Boeselager: How do you prepare for it? What information do they actually give you to prepare for it? I mean, I actually have not, I've never done something like that. I know a few people who have. I'd love to just dig into your experience a little bit, sort of, your expectations before you went. And then how that journey during the 10 days was. And then what were your biggest "aha"s, and learnings, from those 10 days? 

Mario Chamorro: So I was told to prepare. I didn't do any preparation, to be fair. You know, I was told like, hey you know, if you're going to meditate for 11 hours per day, you should start meditating at least for, like, 30 minutes. And I didn't. 

So again, like the physical part was intense because again, you're sitting, meditating, for such a long period of time, which I'm not used to. I think nobody's used to, unless you are a yogi or a big meditator. But I think it's available to anyone. You know, you don't need to be, you don't need to have, like, any level of expertise. You don't need to be, you know, like a particular age or gender. It's pretty open to everyone. 

What did I learn? So again, like, this technique, this meditation technique is really powerful. So when I left, I was kind like, oh, I feel like, you know, good but, you know, I don't know. But days or weeks later, actually, now that I was visiting my parents at the end of my visit, my mom came to me and said like, hey, you were really tolerant this time. And you were really patient this time. Thank you so much for being tolerant, and very present and loving.

And then I was kind of like, okay, that was the result of Vipassana, right? Kind of like things that used to, you know, like, make you react really strongly before, now it's a bit different. So I think that was a beautiful gift. 

Claudia von Boeselager: That's amazing, yeah. And did you say you didn't have any meditation practice before jumping into 10 days Vipassana?

Mario Chamorro: Well, I mean, I have, kind of like, you know, like the regular Headspace that you go once in a while, or, you know, on a timer. Or, kind of like, five minutes, ten minutes. But not a very disciplined practice. So, you know, like- 

Claudia von Boeselager: Wow. 

Mario Chamorro: One hour per day or something. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Then that's really huge. And is this something you think you would continue? I mean, just to keep the benefits, are you, kind of, addicted to it now? 

Mario Chamorro: Not addicted but, uh, it definitely, it grounds me a lot. So if I sit for an hour to meditate, or for 30 minutes, my day is different. I feel it. And it's a technique that is based on listening what you feel instead of what do you think. It's not kind of like guided meditation, it's just like you and your feelings and just learn to feel. Because we, as humans, we were trained to think from our brains.

So we rationalize every single thing, right? From, like, oh, that's green, that's blue, or one and one equals two. But no, we haven't been trained on feelings. So when you're like, oh, this is a feeling. Okay, you know? And it's not good. It's not bad. It's just a feeling. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Exactly. And not judging it as well. And it's an area I find really interesting.

I've been studying it a lot as well. I've done different types of meditation, also TM meditation, also, like, you know, sitting for an hour. I've never done 11 hours straight, but, you know, I think sitting for an hour, it's, sort of, after the 35, 40 minutes, when, you know, the real magic happens, that's when you get into this kind of attuned state. 

And it's just, it's so powerful. As you said yourself, what your mother commented. The sense of being more intuitive, the presence. Dr. Mark Atkinson has a great expression that you're not in the cave, the prefrontal cortex, you're actually in the ocean. And so, the body is just so wise and there's so much knowing there. So, yeah, it's an area I find really fascinating. And I'm also on my journey to discovering more and more. So thank you for sharing that. 

Mario, is there an unusual habit or absurd thing that you love?

Mario Chamorro: Nature. Going to the mountain is so powerful. Like, when I was, I dunno, like 12 years old, I remember this story that my mom shares, that I went to my mom and said, like, hey mom, stop paying my high school because I lost everything. I should not go back to school. And then my mom said, how about if you go to your mountain with your dogs and, when you come back, we'll make a decision.

I say, yeah, let's do it. So I went to the mountain and that was kind of like since I, again, since I've been 12 years old, you know, like, I go to the mountain, and it grounds me, and it teaches me. And then I come back with a different mood. So at least I really tried to go to the mountain, I don't know, like, three times per week, at least.

And when I have like this, uh, I don't know, very, when I'm feeling lost or I don't know, like, overreacting and so on and just go to the mountain. So yes, going to the mountain or going to nature is a habit that grounds me and, and I love. 
Claudia von Boeselager: It's a big thing. Yeah, exactly. And to ground. And also the movement, right? So you're releasing hormones and things as well. So on many fronts. 

Mario, how has a failure, or an apparent failure, set you up for later success? And do you have a favorite failure of yours? 

Mario Chamorro: Um, many. A story, it was December 24th, 2004. I was parking cars in Boston, and a lot of friends were trying to persuade me to apply to a Master's program at Columbia University. And I thought, my self-belief was like, hey, you know what? This is for rich people. This is for smart people. That's not for me. So I keep parking cars. And when I was parking cars, that date, December 24, a car came to the restaurant that I was parking cars. I'd been the valet. And they had a sticker on the back that said Columbia University. So I always tend to share my dreams with strangers. So I told the driver, hey, my dream is to study in that university. So he looked at me and say, hmm, my daughters go to Columbia University, I don't think you can make it. 

So in that particular moment, I, I say what? I think I can do it. So that day I built the confidence to really put serious on learning English and to apply to the school and so on.

So I applied and a few months later I got accepted. So I found the same guy probably, like, four months later, or five months later, in the same restaurant, because I was, kept parking cars there, and when I saw him I thanked him because I told him, if you weren't told me that I wasn't able to get into this university, I wouldn't have build a confidence to do it. So thank you so much. 

So that's a good story that I remember about, like, the power of no. And how a failure can, you know, like, basically give you lots of leverage. But I could easily, you know, have taken then such as, he's right, that's not for me. And, you know, leave my, I mean, don't pursue my dreams, but I'm glad that I had a different attitude.

Claudia von Boeselager: Yeah, exactly. And that gave you the motivation. And two questions from that. One is, why Columbia? Why was that? And when you were in Boston, right?

There's Harvard, there's amazing universities in Boston as well. So one is, I guess, to understand why was Columbia so fascinating, or why we focused on that?

And then, two, what did the guy say when you told them that you had applied and actually got in and thank you for telling me I wouldn't get in because now I got in? What was his reaction?

Mario Chamorro: So why Columbia? It was, uh, I was very interested in the energy markets back then. And I found this program at Columbia that combined energy markets with policy making, which was two of the things that were close to my heart. And also because it was based in New York and I was very curious about New York City. And what this guy said, he was speechless.
He was like, I'm sorry. So-

Claudia von Boeselager: No, but, at least to say thank you. Don't, don't be sorry. 

Mario Chamorro: No. No. I was, you know, really casual, like thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Really cool. Do you have a favorite quote or piece of advice received that was a real game changer for you? 

Mario Chamorro: Yes. The obstacle is the way. That's a good quote. I think it was coined by Marcus Aurelius, an emperor of Rome.

So what stands in the way becomes the way. So I believe that's a good quote that I like to remember because we'll find obstacles in every single aspect of our lives. In our relationships with our partners, in our work. Um, when we're trying to develop any habits, you know, you want to go for a run and then it's raining and you're like, ah, okay, I'll do it tomorrow. Or anything, right? So I believe, like, the obstacle is the way, so whatever stands in the way becomes the way. So I think that's a good reminder. The obstacle is the way. 

Claudia von Boeselager: The obstacle is the way. I love that quote, it's also, you know, it's facing the fear and going through it and you know, Joseph Campbell's work, I'm sure you know, the hero's journey it's, you know, pushing through is it exactly.

And I think even Tony Robbins says the thing that the biggest challenge you're facing is actually the most important one. That's the thing you need to focus on, the one thing and not just push it aside. So it's, Marcus Aurelius summed it up very nicely with the obstacle is the way. I like that. 

Mario, in the last five years, what new belief, behavior or habit has most improved your life? 

Mario Chamorro: Habit that has improved my life? I would say that 10,000 steps. It could be, you know, like, could be 5,000 steps, but, uh, that helps me to go out and walk. And that walk brings me to nature, or it brings me to conversations, or brings me to reflection, or brings me to important things.

Claudia von Boeselager: Just the 10,000 steps. I like that because now you said you're running half marathons because of the 10,000 steps. Is that right? 

Mario Chamorro: Mmm hmm.

Claudia von Boeselager: One step it started, and then 10,000, and now marathons. I love it. 

Let's talk about mental health, Mario. You've now made a move on to a new startup in the mental health space. Can you talk about your view and especially coming out of COVID? Where I think, honestly, that's the biggest pandemic we're going to have and are having is mental health issues that so many people will and are suffering from. Can you talk about your experience with mental health, coming out of COVID, and why you decided to do this startup in this space?

Mario Chamorro: Sure. So mental health, I believe, right now, we're in the mental pandemic. The pandemic basically accelerated the impact of mental health around the world. So we can see, you know, like, dramatic numbers, such as 800 million people committing suicide per year, uh, like 300 million people suffering of severe depression in the world. In Latin America, their consumption of antidepressants have tripled down.

So there's a lot of very dramatic impact of mental health. And I believe the problem is not going away. The problem is just getting bigger. So you can see also, like, different conversations, you know, on politics about it, on media. So there was the record number of articles from media about mental health in history happened just, like, two months ago, but also you can see market reactions.

So in the first quarter of this year, like, $900 million were invested in newly, startups on mental health. So I believe, kind of like, definitely we're in the mental pandemic, and it's time, I believe, for governments, companies and universities, organizations, and individuals to really, really, really pay attention on mental health.

But even if the size of the problem is as big as I just described, one of the very challenging parts is it's really hard to talk about mental health. It's hard to talk about it with your family, with your friends, with your coworkers. So the level of stigma is very high, and to break through that stigma is something that is really challenging.

So, yeah, in a nutshell, I believe it's a big challenge that the world is facing right now. And it's the cultural time right now just to do something about it. But on the bright side, I also believe, uh, that opened up lots of conversations. And I believe, you know, like, it's crazy to think, Claudia, that there is no one word that defines that you're healthy on mental health or your, right?

Neither in English or Spanish. So if I ask you, hey, Claudia,, are you healthy? You say, like, yes, but you're referring to your physical health, not to your mental health, right? And I think, kind of like, it doesn't have a, any particular demographic, or geography, or anything, it basically affects all of us. So, yeah, so. It's a good challenge. And, but I see a lot of hope there. People are paying attention, most to their mental health. 

Claudia von Boeselager: That's amazing. Are you able to talk already about what you're planning on doing with your new startup in this space?
 Yes. So that's a beautiful problem, or a beautiful challenge to solve, and I want to be able to create a platform that can democratize the access of mental health, starting in Hispanic America, or in Latin America, and then moving across, uh, other geographies.

Mario Chamorro: So, right now, I left my last job at Coursera, like, three months ago. And we are in our journey to build a model that can help us to democratize mental health access. As well as we did at Coursera with education, I want to do it now with mental health. 

So, putting together media, because I believe, again, stigma is a big challenge. So, I believe media is a big tool, a powerful tool, to influence behaviors. And that's combining really good art and design and, on the other hand, using technology by combining science and engineering, to be there, to build a good solution. So hopefully, in a couple of months, I can share this platform with you clearly and with your audience, and just to see hopefully that it will help you or any of your audience.

Claudia von Boeselager: I would love that, and such a worthy cause, and so important as well. And I think, to your point around stigma, and especially, depending on which country and culture, but I really feel it's so important for people to talk about it. I mean, I had phases also with postnatal depression and things like that as well.

And I think it's very much like you, you know, I grew up with, you know, you have to put on a brave face and you don't talk about things. And I think that the more you open up, the more other people realize it's actually okay to talk about it. And by talking about it, in essence, you know, a problem shared is a problem solved.

So the more that you make it okay to talk about it, the more help it can do. And I could imagine in Latin America that this might be carrying more stigma maybe than in other places, so, you have maybe a bigger challenge than in other places to discuss it. But are you using some of the strategies and tools that you've seen in the US or how is your strategy on helping? You said using media, and is it courses or how are you going to structure this? 

Mario Chamorro: Yeah, on the media side, it's definitely using courses, but it's also used creating really good content on topics such as how to manage a panic attack? Or what is depression? Or how can you prevent depression? Or how can you deal with OCD? Or how can you build habits to do X, Y, and Z?

So that's part of the content side. So it's about, like, body, mind and soul. And, on the other side, we're going to be developing tools to address some of those challenges. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Really exciting. Thank you for sharing that. And please let us know when it's launched. I would love to share that also in my community, my audience, as well.

What in your view separates a good leader from a great one, Mario? 

Mario Chamorro: Hmm. I think a great leader is someone who can, I mean, for me, a leader is just like someone that empowers other people to do what they're good at. So, part of it is just to even define what are, like, those superpowers that people have, and somehow to give them the confidence and guidance for them to use those superpowers for, to support any cause that is greater than them. So it's basically unleash these superpowers, or to unleash these beautiful skills and powers that people have.

So I think that that's a leader. Someone who empowers others to achieve, like, a better version of themselves. 

Claudia von Boeselager: I agree. 

Before we finish up, Mario, a few rapid fire questions. What has been your most exciting purchase in the last 6 to 12 months?

I love specifics. Brands, where you bought it. 

Mario Chamorro: 6 to 12 months. Okay. I'm like, I'm like, turning now.

Okay. So I think, kind of like, maybe my, I mean, this is, like, really, kind of like, not the best but maybe, kind of like, my iPad, because now I'm, like, taking lots of notes here, and I'm drawing, and I'm constantly, you know, like, I used to do that on notebooks, which is great, but I ended up lost in all the notebooks, uh, and not having track of, like, the ideas pages and so on.

So I've been using this app called Notability and it's amazing. Just, kind of like, to do drawings, to graph ideas, to take notes. I think Notability, probably, instead of, like, the iPad, Notability has been the best purchase that I have done over the past 6 months. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Thank you 'cause I haven't tried that yet, which I must do. So I'm going to try that Mario. Thank you for sharing. 

Do you have any particular books, documentaries, and movies that you feel people must watch? 

Mario Chamorro: Mmm, books, yes. Part of my morning rituals, I read The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday. So it has 65 daily meditations. And, again, it's one page. It's just, like, sometimes it's only, like, one paragraph.

Like, for me, stoicism is something that is a very powerful tool, and it's a philosophy that is really pragmatic. So I love the practicity of it. So each meditation, you know like, gives you one specific reflection for one day and it will take you only, like, five minutes. But I think, like, that's so powerful. 

So that's the book that I would suggest. And in terms of, like, movies, one of my favorite movies is Big Fish with Ewan McGregor, and it's about- 

Claudia von Boeselager: Big Fish? 

Yeah, it's about a relationship of, like, Dad and son, and just, you know, like sharing the stories about life in a very whimsical way. And again, I believe in a world where whimsy and imagination are the norm. So that movie, kind of like, represents that.

Claudia von Boeselager: I love it. 

In the last five years, what have you become better at saying no to, like invitations or distractions, and what realizations and/or approaches have helped? 

Mario Chamorro: It's hard to say no, for me. I have found myself as a, you know, like to have a lot of like people-pleasing challenges. So it's hard for me to say no, but I've been start saying no to things that I don't feel good.

I mean, it's not to please people, but if I'm not, like, really feeling it, I can just say no. And the realizations that I have from those actions are that, uh, you know, we should be guardians of our time. And when we guard our time, it's good because time is the most important asset that we have. I mean, you can buy anything, but you cannot buy time.

Claudia von Boeselager: Yes, exactly. Such wise words. 
Mario, metaphorically speaking, if you could get a message out to 1 billion people, say by writing it in the sky, and a billion people could read it, what would it say, and why? 

Mario Chamorro: What makes you happy? It will be a question. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Perfect. 

Mario Chamorro: And it's the same question that I asked to 200,000 people. So if I can do like the billion, yeah, what makes you happy. Because I believe people should prioritize that, things that make them happy or, you know, things that matter to them. But I don't think nobody will say like, for me, it really matters to have a Ferrari or to be a big CEO, right? 
Agree. Yeah. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Happiness. And that's so much more valuable, if you can carry that within you every day.
What a game changer, and life changer, that is. 

Mario, what advice would you give a smart, driven, high school students about to enter their next phase of life, be it college or work? What advice would you also recommend they should ignore?

Mario Chamorro: Advice I should is probably, like, read about stoicism. That's a good tool to have. It will help them in their relationships with their families, with their partners, but also at work, but also with life. And it's all about, like, to seek virtue, and to seek meaning in our lives. So I would say, like, read stoicism is probably like good advice something that I would have loved to find earlier in my life.

And ignore the naysayers you know? There always are going to be naysayers. There always are going to be bullies. There are always going to be divas. There are always going to be people that tell them, uh, you know, so ignore them. You know, like, take no as a powerful force as a leverage, not as something bad. 

Claudia von Boeselager: I agree. And also I see no as a yes later on. So if you really want it you just come back at a better time and in a maybe reframed way, and often it turns out into a yes. So I agree. 

Mario, where can people learn more about what you're up to on social media or websites, and what would you like to share with people?
Mario Chamorro: I think my personal site, which I don't update often, it's called mariochamorro.co, I think that's one. 

Claudia von Boeselager: So, M A R I O and then C H A M O R R O, .co. 

Mario Chamorro: Yeah. And the other one is, I guess my Instagram is easy it's @mariochamorro. I intentionally deleted Instagram two weeks ago and it's giving me much more time, again, talking about, like, you know, be guardians of our time.
But when I'm back, I guess I post things there. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Do you have any final ask, recommendation, or parting thoughts, for my audience, Mario? 

Mario Chamorro: I guess, you know, I mean, remember, like, the little graphic that I shared about where you can start. You know, like, things that matter to you, with things that are under your control. And in the middle is where you should focus. I mean, things that are under your control, plus things that matter to you. 

Claudia von Boeselager: Thank you so much for the time, the inspiration, the incredible work that you're doing, sharing that with us and the world. I really, really appreciate you coming on today. Thank you so much. 

Mario Chamorro: Thank you, Claudia, I appreciate it.