Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 0:00  
I view surgery as a ceremony surgery, an opportunity to undergo a major transformation of the mind and body, and historically I think that's really what the process of medicine and surgery was.

Claudia von Boeselager 0:13  
Are you ready to boost your longevity and unlock peak performance? Welcome to The Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast. I'm your host Claudia von Boeselager, longevity and peak performance coach. Each week we'll explore groundbreaking science, unravel longevity secrets share strategies to grow younger and stay up to date with world-class health and peak performance pioneers. Everything you need to live longer, live better, and reach your fullest potential, ready to defy aging, optimize health, and promote peak performance, visit LLinsider.com. For more

Hi there, it's Claudia, and I'm super excited to invite you to my free training on achieving peak performance and increasing longevity without burning out, even if you're short on time or dealing with health issues. This is for you as a peak performance and longevity coach. I've helped entrepreneurs and business professionals like you accomplish more while enjoying vibrant energy to live their best life. If you're ready to unlock your peak potential, grab the training free training by signing up at LLpeak.com. Today. Plus, I have a special gift for you just for joining. So don't miss out on this life-changing opportunity. Just go to LLpeak.com. That's LLpeak.com today. See you there. 

Today's guest is Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky, a highly trained plastic surgeon from New York. Dr. Jon completed his undergraduate degree in Medical Degree at McGill University, graduating at the top of his class. He was accepted into the competitive integrative plastic surgery residency at McGill University and became certified by the prestigious Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada. Dr. Jon is considered a leader in the field of Artificial Intelligence in medicine, and he is bringing the latest cutting-edge technology to plastic surgery. Dr. Jon puts the patient's needs first, and we'll get into this in our conversation today and how many lives I guess he's saved of women from breast implant illness. Outside the operating room, Dr. Jon has been active in humanitarian work volunteering on medical missions in Guatemala, raising awareness for animal and wildlife conservation, and fundraising for the Montreal Children's Hospital division of cranial facial surgery. Please enjoy. 

Welcome to The Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast. Dr. Jon, I. It's such a pleasure to have you on today.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 2:45  
Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Claudia von Boeselager 2:47  
So, Dr. John, I'd like to start with Something that's very important. And it's breast implant illness. So for my audience listening, either perhaps they have breast implants, or there might be some considering it, you know, what exactly is this breast implant illness? How many people does it affect each year? And how can it be avoided, prevented, and treated?

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 3:10  
So breast implant illness has become a really pressing women's health topic, in the past, I'd say five to seven years. The issue with implants is actually been around for a long time. So maybe I can just start by telling you about my own sort of personal experience in the industry with implants as a plastic surgeon. And then, I'll tell you a little bit more about the details about breast implants. So about six, seven years ago, and I was nearing the end of my aesthetics fellowship training, I started to notice more and more discussion among patients. I'd have patients coming in and sharing this concern that, you know, I think my implants are making me sick. And at that time, the general consensus of the plastic surgery industry in the world was that you know, this is this has been disproven in the past. And there's not really a thing here. And very, very unfortunately, it's it seemed like the rhetoric was put more on the side of, you know, the patient's not rather than like a real assessment, understanding what's going on. Since then, there's been, you know, a complete reversal in terms of the depth of understanding with which I think the industry is starting to look at these issues. Unfortunately, not as much as I would hope. But at that point, for me and my training and where I was at, I decided I was not going to do any breast implant surgery until it was 100% clear. There are no 100% guarantees in medicine, but at that, at that point, I was like, there are enough patients coming in complaining of this being a problem, and I can't accurately predict who's going to develop breast implant illness or these symptoms, so I'd rather just not be involved with it. So what is breast implant illness? Breast implant illness is a constellation of symptoms that really fit in what most people in the medical profession would categorize as sort of the auto-immune category symptoms. So the long list of symptoms, I may not get all of them. But in my practice, what I tend to see often is things like chronic fatigue, joint pain, hair loss, dry mouth, and loss of hair; there are also disturbances in moods, and sometimes gut issues. So it really is touching on a large number of organ systems. And part of the challenge is that because it's such a broad definition of symptoms, it's not necessarily falling into the category of an easily identifiable illness. There's no blood test at the moment that we know that you can take that will say, yes, you have breast implant illness, and who hasn't at some point in their life felt either a bit of fatigue or joint pain or you know, and so, it does make it challenging to consider this. But what we know so far about breast implant illness and what silicone does in the body, and it is not a new thing by the way, it may have changed names and become more common. But if you look at the arc and the history of breast implants throughout the plastic surgery industry, this is a big deal in the 90s. In fact, there was a moratorium meaning a complete stop on breast implants in the 90s. So breast implants have a bit of a controversial, contentious history already in the past. At that time, breast implants were identified or thought to be associated with autoimmune illness. There’s a syndrome called ASIA. So basically, as a constellation of symptoms associated with silicone toxicity, which in my mind, ASIA and breast implant illness are actually in the same, they're kind of cousins, they're in the same category. So it's the body's reaction to silicone. So what silicone does in the body is that for some people, not everybody, silicone is technically in the dark. But for some people, when the immune system sees silicone, the white blood cells, they create a reaction around it that forms a capsule. It's what the body does for any kind of foreign body. It'll create a capsule on it. But the silicone acts as omething we call an adjuvant. An adjuvant is something that basically primes or accelerates the immune system's response. And many things in the body can act as adjuvants; some vaccines have adjuvants. But for a specific subset of people, we can't accurately predict who. We have some we have some theories. I have some of my own personal theories, but for some people who have a predisposition to autoimmune illness. So that means if you have a lot of allergies if you have known autoimmune conditions, hypersensitivities it is more likely that having silicone implanted in your body is going to take your immune system from this base baseline threshold of reactivity and put it into overdrive, which is then going to cause this flurry of autoimmune reactions, overproduction of antibodies, immune cells, and it's just going to put your body in a state of constant inflammation. This topic was particularly interesting to me from a medical standpoint because my background was in immunology before I went into medicine. So I started looking at the literature and saying this is there is no way that this is just a random occurrence. Where there's a thing in medicine, like what a one-time thing is, maybe just a random to starting a pattern three or more. There's definitely some to look at. And I was seeing patient after patient. So it really touched me, and I said, I'm just going to step away from this for now and focus on alternatives and helping patients through the process where clearly I think the industry has not done a good job of supporting women.

Claudia von Boeselager 8:43  
How soon are you seeing patients starting to notice symptoms? So maybe somebody who's listening is like, oh, like last year, two years, five years ago, eight years ago, I've had breast implants, and maybe it was, you know, at age 40, 45, 50. So sort of Perimenopausal, menopausal. You know, who doesn't have gut health issues like so many people do? Right? So it's hard, like the symptoms you're describing, could take the Lyme disease even as well. Right. So that's part of the tricky part about not having a proper like one diagnosis, right? If there's inflammation in the body could be from different sources, but I think if someone knows, okay, yes, they have silicone implanted in the body, right, through the implants. How soon after do patients typically notice symptoms? I guess this is the first question that I just wanted to dig in there.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 9:37  
It's really been a range, and I think there is a really strong component to this that is not just the body and the physiology, and this is what I would consider maybe more of a psycho-spiritual aspect, which I think is very important, which is how people view their body and, and the connection between the nervous system and the mind. But to give you the range, I've had patients come to me and say, immediately after the surgery, within the first week, I felt something was off, I started to feel itchiness in my eyes, and my skin felt uncomfortable. I would say that's definitely the exception. More often, after about a year or so, six months to a year, which makes sense physiologically because what's happening is, over time, the body's creating this capsule around the implant. And some people believe and know, this has been in the literature is contentious. It's been proven and disproven. So basically, I don't know where the truth lies. But the physiology says that it takes several months for this capsule to form around the implant. And it's the body's reaction, the body's fighting at that capsule, that shell, which is what's creating some of the immunological response, on average, I would say somewhere within the six months to a year range. Now, many people, I'd say probably the majority of women with breast implants, don't, arent thinking about symptoms or don't have them, on average it's about 35 to 40% of patients. That's what's been reported in the literature, which is still very high majority. That's a big number, especially if you think about it up until last year for the very first time. Well, up until last year, breast implant surgery was the most common plastic surgery procedure over 100,000 procedures done a year. I mean, that's insane. To think there are 30,000 patients a year, otherwise avoidable. And there's, there's just so many little tabs that go into talking about this in terms of, like, how is the informed consent process done? Why aren't we really being informed of these black box warnings on implants? You know, what are the alternatives that were discussed?

Claudia von Boeselager 11:33  
We're gonna dig into it a little bit. 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 11:36  
Yeah. So I would say, on average, about a year, but I have had patients tell me, you know, within the first week, they felt something was off. And it's, it's possible, I mean, there's this foreign body that's inside your body is interacting with it. And especially if you're predisposed to have an autoimmune response.. 

Claudia von Boeselager 11:51  
Most people don't know if they have, right, unless they've already been diagnosed. They don't necessarily know that. Is that fair to say? 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 11:59  
That's true, they wouldn't know. And, you know, unless you have a strong family history of it, or for whatever reason, you know, that the threshold to show up with our immune systems, we just wouldn't know. I would say in my experience before I knew the staff, and before, this is more of a thing, I was like, you know, maybe 10 to 15% of patients are likely to have a predisposition to an autoimmune condition, and should avoid this. And I was screening patients; this is back when I did it because I no longer do them. I would ask patients, I would say, Do you have any, you know, allergies or hypersensitivities? Any family history of autoimmune conditions? And I would say no, I think there's this link. I don't know for sure. But I did. I found it. Yeah, yeah. And I found it a lot easier now just to step away from it completely. And now I solely focus on ex-plant surgery, and then just doing the alternative, which is, I think, safer, which is that question. 

Claudia von Boeselager 12:46  
Yep. So we'll talk about that in a moment. And I have a question and a concern because I am wearing a silicone strap on my Apple watch. So for those watching, you can see that I'm pointing to my Apple watch. But are there studies, or have you seen research around silicone against the skin externally versus implants internally,

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 13:04  
I have not. So I don't want to speak with, like, 100% authority, but what I know about the biology of the skin is that silicone is inert, and your skin is a very, very effective protective barrier like our skin is essential, it's like more or less waterproof if you think about it. So you have this really thick, durable layer of keratin on top of the skin, which is just dead skin cells. And they have their oils, it's it gets secreted, and then Layers layers deep. So it's the silicone that would be on something like a strap or watch or something making contact with the skin that is nowhere nearly as exposed to the immune system as something that’s literally inside your body at body temperature, potentially shedding off little particles of silicone into the bloodstream. It's like two totally different things. So I personally wouldn't worry about it. But I have not personally seen the literature that examines the difference, but I would say it's pretty low.

Claudia von Boeselager 13:55  
Okay, good. Now, I mean, this is the great thing about having these fantastic conversations with experts, so much myself. I had one week where I was learning about Hashimotos. And he's like 70% of women, particularly those who are hypo, have hypothyroidism, which I do have Hashimoto antibodies, so I went to get myself tested and the antibodies are present. I was like, okay, talking to another biological dentist. He's like any metal in the mouth. And I'm like, I don't have any metal fillings, but low and behold, I have a metal wire behind. So I'm like an antenna. I'm like, Ah, another thing I need to do. One learns along the way. 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 14:28  
Yeah it might be the kind of, you know, there's a saying there was a famous chemist or something. Paracelsus from the 1500s. And he said. It's the dose that makes the poison. And it could be the case for a lot of implantable foreign material in the body because, for example, you know, there's many, many people walking around with orthopedic implants from, from bone for knee replacements, things like that. And those parts, some of them have silicone, other things in that people who have pacemakers or wires. Some of those leads are covered in silicone. So it could just be a question of, you know, the amount of silicone or the Out of the product that could be stimulating response problems. It's so variable, and it's actually hard to test and control for these things. So we may never know for sure the answer, but it's just the signals important and the signals out there.

Claudia von Boeselager 15:13  
Yeah. So so, let's talk about what you were tapping on there before as well, like, why is this not more publicly said? I mean, you were saying that reported cases, if I got the numbers, right, 45, sorry, 35 to 40%. And those are reported cases. So the amount that is maybe unreported, so maybe we're looking at about 50% of cases. So you've got a one in two chance of developing breast implant illness, putting your health and your risk at life, because we all know that a heightened immune system just has a whole cascade of detrimental effects from it. So one is like, why is this not being communicated better? And two you know, what are alternatives? And what are also use case scenarios, because some are more for aesthetics. But I'm sure there are other reasons why women decide to have these surgeries, right?

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 16:03  
Absolutely. Absolutely. So by, to answer your first question, why isn't this more public? I would say now, more than ever, there is a very large and vocal community of advocates. There is a breast implant illness Foundation; there are surgeons that are finally starting to come around and speak more publicly about this. I fully and strongly support my colleagues, and doing that; I think it's important. And in addition to ad advocacy groups, the media has picked up on it, and there are books out there. I've been in contact with an amazing psychotherapist, her name is Amanda savage brown published a book recently called busting free, which is all about the psychotherapy approach to getting ready to do explant surgery. So there's, there's definitely more information out there and more people that are picking up on this. So much so that the FDA had hearings about four or five years ago to revisit the issue of breast implant illness, and it's not just breast implant illness that's the problem. It's also a rare type of cancer that's associated with implants. And that's a known number. There's no question that one in 3000 women that get a certain type of implant are likely to have a very rare type of cancer surgically implant. So I would say even if it's not as popular as it should be, I mean, my personal preference would be that this be made a known women's public health issue because it's shocking that it's still the number two most common plastic surgery procedure. Liposuction is overtaking this number one, I hear what you're saying, like, why isn't this more common, but I would say at the same time, it's actually more discussed and popular than ever. In there, just to give you the context of the history in the 90s, when the moratorium happened. Basically, all implants stopped, that's implants that are filled with saline and implants that are filled with silicone. Now, it's a little bit of a misnomer because whether the implant is filled with saline or silicone, it still has a silicone shell. So the body's still reacting to it the same way. There's a lot of questions about, well, the fluid that's in the saline implant, what happens to that over time, it's basically just sitting a body temperature over time as a growing thing what's, you know, what's happening, the moratorium was placed on the implants, and all intents surgery stopped. And then a tonne of research was done. You know, you could ask questions about how it was funded. And who and what and what were the results, but basically, to say that there is no association between breast implants and autoimmune illness, and it's back on, and so so they were put back on the market?

Claudia von Boeselager 18:31  
I can guess who funded that. 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 18:33  
yeah. And, you know, it's critical thinking and asking more, and following the money is always helpful. Follow the money. Yeah, and the validity of the studies, you know, like there's, there's always people with good intentions, doing that kind of research trying to trying to show validity, but it is, it is a problem to say that, you know, it wasn't unbiased. Now, fast forward to today, it's just not possible to quiet the storm of patients that are angry, that deserve representation that deserves to be heard, and they deserve really an alternative, and that's been a large part of my mission, which is to say, I mean, there's going to be surgeons putting them in there's going to be surgeons taking them out just it's just opposite sides of the same equation. The equation itself has to change, which is what I've been trying to focus on. Say, let's come up with a better alternative and really focus on that, which is why I mentioned before I focus on fat grafting,

Claudia von Boeselager 19:23  
Can we dig into fat grafting, like fat what? What do you do with fat and then like, oh, is this an alternative to liposuction? Can you share a bit about what is fat grafting and what's happeneing.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 19:36  
So fat as a regenerative medium, as a tissue from the body, has been known for 50-plus years. Fat is rich in stem cells, both from the fat but also from the blood, and it can be used as a filler material because fat once grafted, so when you take tissue from one part of the body and put it somewhere else, The body is very intelligent, it surrounds it with all these growth factors and starts to grow it literally it's like taking seeds and putting them somewhere else. And so that tissue is going to grow. And it takes hold wherever you place it. So that makes it a very useful material for filling and creating shapes. Since the research in fat grafting has evolved over the past 30 years, it's not just a useful filler; it can be used for its stem cell regenerative potential to which is really powerful. And so yeah, some of the early uses of fat grafting were actually in patients with burns and radiation therapy after breast cancer, but what was noticed is when the fat was put under the skin, that the skin actually softened and regenerated because people who've had burns, or radiation therapy, for different parts of the body, your skin gets really damaged gets really hard and really stiff. And so the skin becomes more soft and supple, that kind of treatment. So fat grafting, what it is, involves removing fat from one part of the body, in some cases, it’s processed and purified and then, in a sterile container, re-injecting it into the location. So you can either fill and create volume or for whatever regenerative purpose you want to use it for. The way that I use fat is I have a specific protocol and technique where I try and do everything as minimally invasively as possible. The majority of the surgery I do is on patients who are awake but comfortable. Yeah, and it's part of keeping in mind that it's not just about the surgery itself; it's about the entire experience of trying to be as comfortable making a recovery as swift as possible. Because general anesthesia is really intense on the body, going to sleep for surgery is quite the thing to recover from. So patients are generally awake, I use a cocktail of medications to help them feel relaxed and comfortable. We then numb all the area's with a medication that goes under the skin. So I really only really feel like pressure and vibration. The fat that gets removed, I have a special way of processing it.

Claudia von Boeselager 21:57  
Where does the fat get removed from? Is it typically like the abdomen? Or the bum? Like the buttocks? Or where does it go?

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 22:03  
It can be almost just about anywhere in the body. Everywhere in the body there's a healthy layer of fat that surrounds like render the skin on top of the muscle in the most common areas around the abdomen. Yeah, the arms and the inner thigh area.

Claudia von Boeselager 22:17  
Okay, yeah. And you just extract? like how can you visualize it with a syringe extracting fat

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 22:24  
It's it's technically a type. It's a type of liposuction; I use a variety of like sort of newer cutting-edge tools that allow me to do it all through basically like a millimeter size entry point, just a little dot. And so the tool goes inside. And it's a combination of vibration and suction that will break up the fat. And it's like; it's like taking little tiny little bits of fat over a large area. It's literally a sculpting picture like the modern day. Yeah. So you're just taking little bits of fat from certain areas I'm trying to leave to create an aesthetic result from the area; I'm taking the fat, so it looks great and toned. And with the fact that I'm removing and taking out little tiny microscopic bits of fat over a large area. And that then gets collected into a container. And I have a special way of processing the fat, which enhances the stem cell. Historically part of the issue with doing a fat graft, is that not all the fat that gets transferred survive. So a lot of people traditionally, maybe who have had fat transfer or weren't as satisfied or as sort of a mythical propagated, was like, Oh, it doesn't last doesn't work. Well, that's if it's not handled properly. And, of course, not 100% of it will survive. But there are certain things you can do that can increase the survival rate to above 70%.

Claudia von Boeselager 23:39  
And so then you injected them into the breasts, and it has the stem cell benefit because you've treated it basically. 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 23:49  
Yeah, yeah. And to answer one of the questions or pointing out earlier about is only aesthetic or reconstructive. It's for both purposes. So originally, fat grafting was the best more so for patients who've had breast cancer as a means to reconstruct part of the breast. Anatomically, it makes a lot of sense because the breast tissue or the breast, is comprised of glands, so the part that produces milk, as well as fat. So it's a more what I like to think is an anatomically appropriate reconstruction. And that can be done either as an aesthetic tool for what we call primary augmentation. So increasing the size of the breast, without any history of cancer, just wanting a larger, fuller breast, or for the purposes of reconstructing your breasts after cancer and restoring that femininity.

Claudia von Boeselager 24:35  
And you touched before that you have a spiritual practice where you're quite spiritual as well. Can you share a bit more about that? 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 24:43  
yeah, this is this has been, I would say, professionally, a really rewarding aspect of my career in the past few years, which is finding a way to infuse all these different parts of my life into the work that I do every day. So I view surgery as a ceremony surgery as an opportunity to undergo a major transformation of the mind and body. And historically, I think that's really what the process of medicine and surgery was. And there are a lot of similarities between surgery and ceremony. The first is that there's an altered state of consciousness or elevated state of consciousness, whether it's through medication or other kinds of ceremonial experiences. The second is that there's a strong desire to undergo a transformation of the mind and body. You know, in traditional ceremonial work, it's more the mind and traditional surgery is for the body, but it's both like it's a strong physical experience that people go through. And the last is that you have to undergo the journey; there's no question like, if you're gonna, if you want to have the transformation, you got to have the surgery. Yeah, you got to go through it. So they're actually very similar in that way. And when I had that realization, I, I started to lean into a more to see that there's really an opportunity here to create this, this transformation for patients. And I think it's, I think, medicine and surgery have sort of drifted away from that; over time, it's become less spiritual, less and less about that transformative process. And more about, you know, we're in a hospital, you got to know like, this is a very sort of sterile, closed container. And, and it's interesting, I just got back from a trip from Egypt, where I was just like, witnessing all these different medical hieroglyphs and hearing these stories, and just seeing how many ceremonies there were in the process of treating patients while respecting the actual biology and medicine, and I was like, wow, this is, you know, it's still the same thing, there's still the same thing that we still wash our hands a certain way. So we still wear certain ceremonial clothing, the patient still undergoes a process, they fast before the procedure, you know. So it's, it's an interesting link that's there. But I don't think patients have been given the opportunity to use this very special, precious, maybe once-in-a-lifetime moment to have a transformational shift. So what I've focused on in my practice and trying to bring in that spiritual element is to create an opportunity for patients to undergo that process. So it's not just about the surgery; it's about the intention beforehand. In some settings, they could work with either a therapist or a guide beforehand to really like to hone in on what it is they want to achieve and afterward to have this integration pathway. The surgery itself is very interesting to me because I do the procedure awake; I use a special combination of medications that creates the opportunity for patients to undergo this change. And that medication is primarily ketamine. Not sure if you've heard of it before, but ketamine is a medical anesthetic. It's been around for a long time, yes. But only recently, I'd say, in the past decade or so, it's become gaining popularity as more in the psychotherapy world as a treatment for depression and anxiety. And the really interesting thing about ketamine is that it is a very useful anesthetic for patients who are undergoing procedures while awake. It creates a state of neuroplasticity where you can really be guided through an experience and have a realignment in terms of how you view yourself. And it's very gentle on the body. Meaning, from the physiology, it doesn't really do. It's not dangerous for the heart rate or the breathing. So it creates a much lighter aesthetic, and you need less medication. So I've had patients go through this experience where they have almost no, they don't really need pain medication afterward. And their entire surgery processes. It's just like, it really is like a ceremony, and I get to hold the states for them and guide them through that and whatever you just afterward. Yeah, it's; it's been some of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had professionally.

Claudia von Boeselager 28:31  
That's really exciting. I've had several guests on in different relations with ketamine-assisted therapy, so roots to thrive. Dr. Pamela Kryscow, things, people do you know, yeah,

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 28:41  
I know. I just saw her recently at the maps conference in Denver. 

Claudia von Boeselager 28:44  
You were there in Denver and a few friends. A few of my podcast guests have been there, Molly.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 28:50  
She's amazing. She's, she's a big inspiration. The way that she does her work.

Claudia von Boeselager 28:54  
It's phenomenal. Yes, I had her on, and then recently, Dr. Cat Meyer, who was also in Denver, was on this one because he does for sex therapy, ketamine assisted therapy as well.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 29:06  
Yeah, she's also been really inspirational. Talking to her about the way that she cares for her patients and gave me some great ideas on how to integrate the best kind of psychotherapy before and after procedures. So it is so beautiful. Yeah, yeah, no, I just want to say a lot, a lot of really talented people working in this space. And I'm grateful to all of them for the inspiration.

Claudia von Boeselager 29:24  
Yeah, it's so beautiful to have that network. And I really like your idea of it as a ceremonial procedure because it is transformational. And I think that it's probably just as important to do that mental work and peace around it as well. Because what would you say are the biggest drivers for people from a more aesthetic thing? Is it coming from a place of lack and lack of self-worth and unhappiness with self like, does it really is it really solved then by having the procedure? How do you help patients decide? Is this the right choice for them? And what is that mental piece, if you will, the psychological piece that you recommend that they do before and then for the integration after? 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 30:04  
I always come from a place of non-judgment that no matter why somebody is coming in for a consultation, it doesn't.. Their desire and to want to, to want to undergo transformation is where we start. And I screen patients, you know, I say no, a lot. They probably say no, I'd say maybe about 60 to 70% of the time for consultations, which I think is pretty high. Yeah. But yeah, but yeah, but it's really important; I think it would be a disservice to my patients, as well as to myself if I was just saying yes to every person that walked into my office. And so certain things that I screen for is trying to get an understanding of why somebody wants to make a change, and there are definitely certain things that I look out for. But most importantly, if I'm getting the impression that somebody is looking for an outcome, that I can't, I don't think I can achieve either a physical or a mental state that can help them get through the procedure. It's just not the right fit. That being said, just about everybody, or I'd say the majority of patients that are under looking to undergo this physical change, there is an association of how they view their body. And we all have that. We all wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and try and figure out what is going to happen in the day, and like, what do we need to do? How do we need to look and that and that does come from a place of, I think, scarcity in the way that we view ourselves, place the lack, but holding that and, and an awareness of that and knowing that ultimately, what my goal is to help people feel in alignment with who they are as much as possible, so they can thrive every day, I see it as sort of like an alignment of the Spirit in the body. So if you look in the mirror, and you feel more confident, and you're happy, you feel more alive to sort of emboldened to see who you see in the mirror, and you're like ready to go after the day, I think that's a success. But keeping in mind, I also say, you know, like aesthetic surgery, it is not Something that anybody truly needs; it's more of a want. And so really reassess the risks and benefits of any procedure to understand that shift that you're gonna go through. It's important to have just a very, very no-frills conversation during a consultation about what's what to expect. So,

Claudia von Boeselager 32:19  
yeah, because, I have a few friends who've had procedures done different types of procedures as well, particularly after having kids breastfeeding, etc. They're like, you know, in the bikini, things don't look as good as they used to, and I should do something. So I think that there are potential, you know, that bucket of sort of mothers that just don't feel like how they used to, if they were breastfeeding, for example, is it possible with the procedure with the fat grafting that you do for to still like breastfeed and everything after so, is it? Yes, it is.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 32:52  
Absolutely. So all the tools I use are blunt, meaning there are no sharp instruments that affect or damage any of the breast glands. Not everybody. So the important thing to say there is not everybody has the ability to breastfeed at baseline. So it doesn't impact the ability to breastfeed. Because there's no cutting of tissues, I'm not removing any glands; I'm just gently placing the fat around the breast gland with a blunt instrument. So there's no sharp cutting. Another tool that I use allows tightening of the skin to raise and sort of elevate the breast tissue. So it's an almost scarless way to do a breast plant. But both of those tools are not sharp; they don't damage the breast glands.

Claudia von Boeselager 33:31  
Yeah, cuz I mean, especially as you know, I have a goal; I'm biologically 26, some 15 years younger, working to reverse them further. And 100, 150, maybe even 200, who knows, like as things are progressing. And obviously, we want to represent how we feel inside and also outside, right? And so I think support like that, for those who choose to right. So again, no judgment, and I think it's always questions like, Where's it coming from? Make sure it's coming from the right place. But I think that it's beautiful to have different options as well. Claudia here again, don't miss out. Grab free training on how to achieve peak performance and increase your longevity without burning out. Just go to LLpeak.com. Today, what are some of the biggest myths you hear about plastic surgery?

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 34:22  
There are some industry-specific myths, meaning specific tips or certain procedures about things you can and can't do. But as a whole. I would say one of the myths is just about the incidence of plastic surgery, meaning how often people are getting procedures and just some of the things we see, so Something I see a lot is, you know, there's certainly a lot of thoughts about it and media and judgment and how people think about it, but the truth is that you know, a lot of people get procedures and you often wouldn't know or notice that just because if it's done well it should just look like a natural and enhancement. Yeah, exactly like might the biggest compliment I can hear from my patients like, oh, it looks like you've been working out or Something different about you. I can't quite tell it's not like did you get work done? So, yeah, so I think there's definitely a myth there. And I think, in general, normalizing the conversation about our bodies and how we treat them. And what we do to them, I think, would be very helpful. And again, from a place of nonjudgement, I joke with one of my friends saying, you know, like, we are just these avatars that we do things do, you know, whether it's like dyeing your hair, you're changing the way we look, we're putting on different clothing. Obviously, plastic surgery we're undergoing surgery procedure is way more intense than that. But it's still on that spectrum of things that we do to our body to help us feel more in alignment with who we are. So I think one of the mistakes and things I've seen, it's just like, I don't know if people necessarily realize how much this industry impacts people and how much people are actually having, whether it's a minor procedure or all the way to like a big procedure that involves general anesthesia. One of the more common myths that I hear, specifically in the work that I do, is that doing liposuction somewhere in the body causes fat to reappear elsewhere. And I hear that all the time. And it's not actually true, fat is not that intelligent at all. The body stores and puts that wherever it needs to, however, it needs to. And I always say that that's not really a problem. It's just, you know, some people, if it's not where you want it to be, it's not, you can be less happy about it. So that's, that's one of the myths I see pretty commonly. It's like, Oh if you remove that from somewhere else, it can reappear somewhere else.

Claudia von Boeselager 36:36  
That sounds interesting. I want to ask a question about white fat versus brown fat, right? So we all want more brown fat than white fat. Does that have any role with the fat grafting that you're doing? 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 36:48  
So brown fat in adults is more of like a, what I'll call like a histological phenomenon, meaning it's like very, very small amounts. It's mostly small babies that have large sorts of brown fat that you could probably isolate from somewhere. Adults don't have it. But it's not necessarily like when I'm doing my procedure; I can differentiate between brown adipose fat, of brown and white fat. But brown fat is fascinating, and it's full of all this, all these other things that make it just that much more active; it helps give you more of it. It's just like the metabolism of what's happening in brown fat is just very different. I have never looked specifically, though, at what the difference in fat retention would be if you're harvesting fat that has a higher incidence of brown fat; we do know that fat has a higher retention if it is mixed with stem cells and if you purify certain stem cells from fat, and it is possible that maybe some of those stem cells are more likely to come from dark brown fat areas, but I don't know for sure,

Claudia von Boeselager 37:51  
because I think I know in the biohacking community, it's like if during , you know, cold plunges cold water therapy, even having like ice packs on the back of your shoulders. I did that for a while just before bed, things like that, to promote brown fat, the fat, by the way; if people like your fat, they will think negatively, but brown fat is the one we want. And so you're saying?

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 38:11  
Yeah, we want it. I mean, it's full of mitochondria; it really helps stimulate the energy centers of the body. And exactly right, that's, that's what I've heard and read as well as that, that kind of cold shock therapy, trips, trips the biology of those fat cells to overpower to increase production,

Claudia von Boeselager 38:28  
I want to touch on a few things stem cell research; what are some new evolutions in stem cell research that you find most exciting? 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 38:37  
You know, stem cells have been around for a long time. But now we're finally, I think, starting to hit more and more mainstream use of stem cells by there's the ethical approach, the legal approach, and then there's like the actual, what can stem cells do so, ethically, legally, the FDA, at least in the US only allows stem cells to be used in the context of a clinical trial for very specific applications, which are usually having to do with blood-related illnesses, whether that's cancer or immune system dysfunction. But that's just the tip of the iceberg. And the reality is that in other countries and even around the US, stem cells are used very commonly for different types of procedures. Stem cells can be harvested just about anywhere in the body. And there's evidence that basically, the earlier you're catching the stem cell on its origination. So if you catch either fetal stem cells from the placenta or from the umbilical cord, those are the richest and most valuable in terms of what they can do. And in the past decade or so, we've learned that it's not even just the stem cells so much it's about what the stem cells produce. And I'm sure you do live in this world to you all about it, which is the

Claudia von Boeselager 39:52  
Share with my audience.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 39:54  
So yes, exosomes have little bits of genetic material and packets of information that tem cells secrete that is the effector, meaning like, like actually, what the stem cells are doing. So stem cells are like puppet masters. The exosomes are the puppet strings that are moving the puppet; they're really having an effect on the body. And in the past 510 years, there's just been an explosion in stem cell research and the production of these exosomes that can then be injected back into the body, which in some ways is safer than stem cells are biological material. Anytime you're injecting biological material, the body, there's a whole bunch of things that could go wrong. So injecting exosomes is technically safer, and you're still getting the benefit. So and then even a step further has been this concept of Something called Yamanaka factors, which is a researcher who identified certain genetic codes that come from stem cells that can really rewire and reprogram the body to act and turn on all these genetic programs that make the body younger. So exsomses, specifically, I'm very excited about, I guess I indirectly use it for my fat transfers. It's not technically like a stem cell product. But the way that I harvest and process the fat is that there's a special way to harvest the exosomes produced by the fat cells that I harvest, and it's all from the same patient. And it can be re-injected back into the patient. So that's increasing the survival of the fat,

Claudia von Boeselager 41:20  
super exciting. I want to touch on Something you mentioned in passing on your trip to Egypt. Sounds like it was amazing. Can you tell us a bit about what you were doing there?

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 41:31  
Egypt really is like, you know, before going, I kept hearing from people like, oh, it's like a portal. It's like a corridor. It's just like a transformative place. I went with a group of friends on this incredible trip down the Nile, where every day, we would stop at different temples and have these experiences. And just really learning not just about the culture and history of Egypt, because the sort of spiritual past, what would happen there, and one particular experience really stood out for me, which was, you'll find this really interesting, which is the temple of Horus. So Horus was an Egyptian god who was associated with health and longevity, and healing. And if you've ever looked at that, there's an interesting sort of medical trivia fact here, which is, if you've ever looked at our rx, the which is prescription that comes from the symbol of the Eye of Horus, the R, and the X is literally, dude, you may have seen in Egyptian hieroglyphs before, it's just the eye with the Ark through it, which is, which is known as a symbol of the Eye of Horus and visiting that temple was just and I'm just kind of like a geek and a nerd for this kind of stuff to like, seeing all these medical hieroglyphs that had to do with like surgical procedures and doses of medications and things like that. I was like, you know, this is like, it's like the equivalent of walking to an Egyptian hospital 3000 years ago, and like sifting through some files, it's like seeing these glyphs. Yeah, and it just kind of brought back that concept of surgery of ceremony even more, which is there, no matter how far we've gone through the spiritual side of it, there's still the ceremonial aspect of what we do. And I heard that great quote from a friend the other day, which is ingrained in me, which is what is a protocol but a process, what is a process but a ritual, and what is a ritual but a ceremony? And that's a thought I had when I was standing at the temple, I was like, I mean, whether it's hieroglyphs on a wall, that look that are showing medications and surgical instruments, or me in the operating room holding it. There's a common thread that goes through all of that, you know, I wash my hands a certain way before a procedure, I put my cap and gown on the same way I prep the patient the same way. All of that is a protocol, process, ritual, and ceremony. And so yeah, and so a lot of my experience in Egypt was just being witness to that. And it was incredible.

Claudia von Boeselager 43:40  
It's amazing. I've heard from different sources. I was also listening to Aubrey Marcus, who had this incredible trip. I don't know if you've us

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 43:48  
we're on the same trip.

Claudia von Boeselager 43:50  
Were you on the same interview? Yes. Yeah. I'm in the process of listening to his podcasts. And

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 43:58  
I witnessed some of that stuff, man; it was a lot of Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager 44:04  
And I'm Mateos Stefan; I will be speaking in London in a few week's time, so I'm gonna go to his workshop there as well.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 44:14  
It was a phenomenal that I witnessed and channeling and and sharing, sharing his experience. And it was powerful. I mean, there's just so much we don't understand if we just push the boundaries of what we're willing to accept as a real understanding; just a whole nother world of possibilities opens up where I think you can really just in question and inquiry of like, what else is out there?

Claudia von Boeselager 44:32  
I can't believe that you have with them. And I'm listening to his podcast - the universe brings these things together. It's really incredible. So perfect timing that we're speaking right now as well. So we're offline after I have a few questions for sure. Dr. John, what is the future of plastic surgery? Would you say?

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 44:55  
This is my hope for the future of plastic surgery. I don't know if it's actually where the industry is headed. But I would hope that patients and surgeons come together to help everybody. Whether it's through procedures, technology, or every modality we have available to help people truly feel that the source of their own creativity and divinity within. I think that's ultimately the goal of any of these procedures; it's being able to wake up and feel as aligned as empowered in connection with what you see your body is. And more, I think the industry kind of like standpoint would do Something like everything is just heading towards being minimally invasive, so less than less invasive, less and less general anesthesia, I don't think it's necessary or safe for patients to have to go to sleep, and there are big procedures anymore, or even small ones. I think that's more of a thing of the past and sort of surgeon's preference. So doing procedures awake, less invasive, and more of a focus on what happens before and after surgery. And so all these amazing longevity biohacking tools that we have available to us, as well as bringing on other allied health professionals, whether it's therapists, to really create this arc of transformation. I think there's just going to be more and more emphasis on the fact that it's no longer just about life in the operating room.

Claudia von Boeselager 46:18  
Yeah, and see you later. Good luck. Thankfully, as well, what are some of your favorite longevity and biohacking integration tools,

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 46:27  
I've gone down this rabbit hole. I started a company called regenerate RX generate with a nurse colleague of mine. And we went down the deep end looking for all the different tools and hacks. I tried them all. I was wearing like six different gadgets at some point, monitoring my sleep and 

Claudia von Boeselager 46:42  
I got a few of those myself.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 46:44  
My watch, I was doing different infusions and IVs, and things like that. And, you know, it's, I would say that keeping it simple and going back to the basics has been the best thing for me. And that has been three things basically two ways of thinking about it. It's like, what am I putting in my body? And what am I doing to my body? So really opt-in, and every one of those categories is optimizing for sleep. So it's the number one thing I do. It's the number one thing most people spend their time doing over a lifetime. So as far as the best bang for your buck, and time spent, you can improve your sleep quality, and it's so high on the chain and things that happen in the body from frustration to mood and all the things going.

Claudia von Boeselager 47:28  
What is your hacks? Yeah, so we're gonna dig into what is what are you doing. game changes for you? What did you say? 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 47:34  
so so so, it's always the same thing. It's what am I doing to my body or putting my body so before bed? I like to take magnesium, usually magnesium glycinate. I know there's a bunch of different kinds. There's also forget that, yeah, I forget the brand, but it's kind of like all sudden, different. Here's capsulation. I think it's. Yeah, I think that's what I take. I take that one before bed. So that's what I'm putting in my body; I usually I have thought about what you're not putting in your body and try to avoid eating about three hours before bed. Try to put that on a relatively empty stomach. Avoid any bright light, and I try and keep the light down low. Lately, I've been seeing some interesting research about how truly sensitive the eyes are to light, even when your eyes are closed. So I'd like to watch it on a day that I'm not working too late. I like to try and catch the sunset. And that just creates this interesting sort of melatonin. Yeah, you increase melatonin production. I don't think I'll have time for that. There was a while I was thinking clearer and written some other things. I like to be really comfortable as I sleep. I was using the eight sleep for a while to try and cool down a mattress, but I found ultimately just, just like setting the temperature properly in the room, I will always keep a hand or foot outside of the covers, which is kind of a funny, because yeah, it's such a separate measure. But it's also your body's most efficient way of regulating your core body temperatures to your hands, hands or feet, and your face because the blood vessels are aligned in a certain way that allows them to cool off quickly. It's like literally the same concept as an air conditioner. So I'll usually keep up a few minutes out because that I know when I'm sleeping helps me regulate. I also try not to do any like kind of crazy exercise three hours before bed. Again, I don't know if the decision is to exercise or not to exercise so and then in the morning, so I find this actually really helpful. Which sets the rhythm for how I get tired at night is just getting a lot of bright light during the day. And that that's been really helpful, and I've heard a number of fields become this, and I think you've been popularised a lot, but I've heard it from a lot of other places that I've noticed is really thing I like literally wake up and like go outside my balcony and just just taking the nature and just get as much sunlight as I can in my eyes. Also, try to avoid coffee after 3pm.

Claudia von Boeselager 49:50  
Yeah, so that's number one was sleep.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 49:54  
Yeah. So fasting has been incredibly helpful. I try not to go overboard with fasting. I've noticed, you know, like just being really concerned about eating all the time can create its own level of stress, but really simply try not to eat any major calories until about 11 or noon every day. So I guess you'd call it intermittent fasting. And every two weeks, I do a 24-hour fast. Mine's actually about to start. Yeah, yeah. And it just follows the calendar every two weeks; it's a really helpful way psychologically, helps me reprogram my relationship with food reminds me that being hungry is not the end of the world. And it just, it just feels good to kind of get my body like just to just to quiet the engine down a little bit. Because it's really that we know that the metabolic over the function of the process of body is what contributes to a lot of the factors that cause aging. 

Claudia von Boeselager 50:46  
Yeah, I think that's really helpful, too, just to comment on that for people listening. So I dug into intermittent fasting a lot, and especially for women, it's a lot, it can be detrimental. I think what I've also found with clients is that for men, it's a lot easier to, you know, not have food until, say, midday, and then have that afternoon eating window for women that can really cause dysregulation of hormones and have a lot of knock-on effects as well. So Dr. Satchin Panda is actually going to be coming on; he's the sort of researcher around circadian rhythms. He even just says, you know, overnight, having that 12 to 14 hour hours is enough to already see some of the benefits as well. And then doing the occasional 24-hour fast or 36-hour fast can be really beneficial. So just for women listening, take note. And then another thing I would just say to people listening, this is assuming you're coming from a healthy baseline, you don't have a depletion in minerals, vitamins, essential things as well. So some people were like, their health or immune system is like shot and really bad when they start fasting, and they're causing huge adrenal fatigue. And, you know, I've gone the wrong way myself. So I'm speaking from experience. So just, if you're considering intermittent fasting, take note, and also make sure that you have a really good baseline before you get into regular practice. So So, I just wanted to cover at that point.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 52:04  
That's a great reminder. Thank you for saying that.

Claudia von Boeselager 52:07  
So the intermittent fasting, we've got sleep,

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 52:10  
and cold plunge, cold and hot. So I recently installed, I put my favorite part of my house, it's tough to nature, and there's an outdoor sauna that gets really hot, it goes up to about 180 degrees fahrenheit. And then and then then the cold plunge. And I'd love to do that as often as I can. Usually, I'll do this, like, you know, thinking you take it far enough into this literature, there are like what people are saying everybody's got an opinion. I don't know if there's like a hard-set fact anywhere. But we do know that the alternation of the delta is the difference between the hot and cold is what is what's important and allows your body to just get up on its own. But I found cold times to be really helpful. Just hard, hard, uncomfortable stuff, consciously, I think, is kind of the tagline. So whether it's strength training and lifting weights and building muscle mass, which we also know is very healthy and important for longevity as we age. But also, just that kind of cold exposure has been really helpful.

Claudia von Boeselager 53:06  
Yeah. And the combination of both as well. And like funnily enough, my German grandmother used to go, in Germany; you have these like wellness; I guess you could call it a spa, was seen more as a medical thing. And like literally, the insurance companies used to pay for patients in Germany to go to this, and she used to go like six weeks a year, paid by a company. Yeah. And when we were little, we used to kind of go, and you can visit these places and they would literally they have these, if you imagine like almost like a snake it was like super hot water you would stand in and then you'd walk into the really cold water and move it around, and they have all these different saunas with different temperatures, and then the cold plunge as well. So this is all like this biohacking thing, but it actually has been around for hundreds if not 1000s of years.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 53:50  
So totally. I just love documents, and I'm russian like my parents and grandparents had what was called the Banya. Yeah, just like a sauna that you guys. Yeah. Like, they didn't call it biohacking. It was just living.

Claudia von Boeselager 54:00  
But I'm actually going to the Russian Banya in London tomorrow.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 54:04  
So awesome. Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager 54:07  
Yeah, exactly. What I'd love to finish up with is if you could live to be 150 years old, Dr. Jon, with excellent health. How would you spend your time? 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 54:21  
I plan on it. By the way? I'm gonna make it out. I'll see you there too. I would say in the company of friends, family loved ones. And celebration in pursuit of joy and learning. Yeah, yeah. If I could look to or when I looked at that day, I think it'd be the coolest, coolest thing just to keep learning and going deeper. I'd get maybe, I don't know, go get different degrees and try and find all the ways that they combined together to just create total alchemy of things we don't know yet. But most important, yeah, most importantly, I think it's the relationships that I have in my life that I had created the most joy and meaning, and I would focus on those.

Claudia von Boeselager 54:59  
Yeah, I mean, Harvard, Harvard's the longest-running study of the world longest running study from 1938, right that like shows for longevity and happiness and longevity is about human connection. I think the world really needs to reshift post-COVID right, to remember what connection is. And I almost fear, and I try; my kids are a bit younger, seven and nine, but like, letting them know that, like these devices, and just sending a WhatsApp to somebody is not really a human connection. And when they hear the stories of, like, back in the old days, you would write somebody a letter, like, I'm going to come visit, and then you'd visit for a few days. And you sat around without devices and had conversations, it's like for them now like what like, what, what did they do? Yeah, like, to each other, enjoying each other's company. So let's see whether we'll bring but I totally agree with connection and experiences, right? So like your Egyptian experience, right? Just these beautiful things the world has to offer that we just need to spend time uncovering and to be able to do that with friends and family and loved ones is amazing. So what excites you most about the future of health longevity in the coming years and beyond?

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 56:04  
Two things, artificial intelligence as a tool to enhance health practitioners. And second thing is the proliferation of medicine as a tool to help people who are already well rather than focusing on just sick or unwell. And it's not to say that people who are sick and don't need help don't need help. Absolutely not. It's not what I'm saying. But I think for the first time, we're able to democratize information to make healthcare more accessible for everybody. And that's both for people who are unwell and well to just try and optimize everybody's health. And on the artificial intelligence side, I'm really interested in I work as an advisor for a few companies in the healthcare artificial intelligence states. And I really think just how, you know, maybe a couple 100 years ago, before x rays or medical imaging was used, like a doctor with an X-ray, or a CAT scan was not nearly as good as one, or sorry, a doctor without that kind of technology. Because it's, it'll be the same thing as artificial intelligence, having that super, super-powered approach to knowledge. Information, we'll just make healthcare more accessible and more efficient for everybody.

Claudia von Boeselager 57:20  
I'd love to ask a follow on question on that. So in what ways or what applications of AI in medicine? Do you find it helpful because there is IBM Watson, which reads all the medical research because not like, one human can read all research that comes out? So it's like up to date. So that's kind of one application versus I've had a recorded conversation that hasn't been published yet about the MRI scanning, right? And like, pre-empting, like early detection of potential cancer and things like that, as well. So what area of AI application and medicine do you think is most exciting?

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 57:54  
Oh, that's a great point; we could do a whole another podcast on that. So I started an AI company in Montreal called media about seven years ago that was focused on applications of AI and medical imaging. I think every facet has, has some potential. But what I'm most excited about is the application of AI and surgical robotics. Yeah, I think there's a lot that happens in surgery. And that could be improved. So I advised the company called Neurolink, which is involved in printing, and creating an implant for a brain-computer interface. And my screen. Yeah, yeah. And the amount of the amount that we're learning and able to glean from being able to literally gather information from the brain, as well as the surgical robot that is mostly guided by AI, is just incredible. And so there's a number of companies that are working on a space that I think is fascinating. Apart from that DeepMind, a company based out of London. Yeah, and they have a sister, like a related company with the same founder that is focused on protein folding, which I think is going to be incredibly fascinating for drug synthesis, where you can have, you know, part of the problem with drugs and pharmaceuticals now, today is that you know, you can think such a small amount of the bioavailable molecule, meaning you take, like, what thing Do you buy that you buy 100% of that maybe 10 to 15% is actually the only thing supposed to do it like not very often. And that's the case with a lot of drugs, whether it's the body's breaking down, or it's not working, it's supposed to, so with AI approaches and pharmaceuticals, there's the opportunity to develop extremely, extremely tailored molecules that can act specifically on certain parts of the body designed just for you based on your genetic and I think that's, that's really powerful. So I would say it's giving you a big answer, but I'm excited because of really big robotics that really tiny molecules will take extremes in our country.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:00:00  
So, yeah, I know a lot of people always are fearful when they hear AI. But I do think there are a lot of positive benefits as well. So it's finding that balance. Yeah, that's another conversation.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 1:00:10  
The fear is certainly warranted. And I and I definitely agree with you there. But there's also a great benefit. Yeah.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:00:17  
So for my listeners interested in understanding more about plastic surgery in the work that you do, and it's particularly on fat grafting as an alternative, and also around breast implant illness, what is an online resource, or you mentioned, obviously, the book will link that as well that you recommend they could start with, 

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 1:00:37  
I think it can be just as simple as going to a few places. If you just go on Google and type in breast implant illness and fat grafting, there's a tonne of information that you can find about problems with implants and the opportunities to start grafting. I regularly share these topics on my Instagram. So that's @drjon.k. So that's drjon.k. Also, on my website, auraaesthetica.com. 

Claudia von Boeselager 1:01:10  
And we'll link everything in the show notes. Yeah.

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 1:01:14  
Yeah. Those are, those are some of the best places; there are actually a few. There's gonna be a few books and movies coming out on the topic of breast implant illness as well. So there's, there's no shortage of information out there. I do think that the book that I mentioned, busting free by Amanda Savage Brown, it's also a great, great place just to get more context and information,

Claudia von Boeselager 1:01:35  
Do you have a final ask or recommendation or any parting thoughts or message from my audience today?

Dr. Jonathan Kanevsky 1:01:43  
It's a message of gratitude. And just, you know, every day I'm grateful for the work that I get to do, and I hope that anybody listening also can find something to be grateful for and some aspect of your day because that can be such a source of positive energy. Thank you for the work that you do and the guests that you bring on, and this opportunity to speak. I'm so grateful.

Claudia von Boeselager 1:02:05  
Yeah, same here. Thank you so much for sharing your work. And I love the innovation that you're bringing across the field and the awareness and also your decision not to do the typical breast implants when you were able to foresee the risks already and save so many women's lives because of it. So thank you, too. Thank you. Thank you, sir.